92 348TS FOR SALE W/SALVAGE TITLE

The car is reaching celebrity because of this thread... who cares about the title, you get a piece of F'chat history. Does Rob qualify for a cut?

 

Tis thread is exactly why a lot of folks don't post their cars for sale here. Sometimes someone tried to put one over, but in this instance, I don't think that occurred. There should be a way to keep this sort of garbage off the want ads. Perhaps looking the thread, and then the communicates are private? If then someone tried to play a game, then we should be made aware.

Tex has a bit of a problem, offer and acceptance.

Alan:

Any comments?

Art

 

No consideration, though.

 

He's been MIA since the day he posted that. Hope he's ok.

 

Maybe a hitch in his giddy up ?

 

Tom,

I have read through a number of pages of this thread an it makes me ashamed to be a FChat member. I can only imagine and add:

For sale, 250 GTO, salvage tittle, and wonder what the response would be.

 

How can a unknown user on an internet forum, possibly named Bubba, make a legally binding offer on a car?

 

All that means is that the seller can entertain other offers. Tex is still on the hook to either put up or withdraw his offer.

 

This is about the most absurd comparison you could make.

Race car vs. street car.

One of 38 vs. one of 15,000 or whatever Ferrari pumped out.

Iconic Ferrari vs. the Ferrari Luca was ashamed of.

This isn't even apples vs. oranges.

It's diamonds vs. glass shards

$38,000,000 vs $38,000

Good grief.

D

 

Wow!
Sooo, if I understand correctly the OP omits a crucial bit of information, then tries to mitigate damages by attacking and minimizing the taint of a salvage title .
Allusions to a theft recover are made but then a subsequent claim is made that(only?) cosmetic damage was done with a golf club. Tiger Woods' car? No firm, verifiable explanation has been offered that I can see.
I see that the OP bought this car with a salvage title and can only wonder how that negotiation went. OP is well aware of the diminished value, justifiable or not.
Nowhere have I seen the VIN posted so any potential buyer can sniff around for themselves.
If seller has nothing to hide he ought not be obfuscating the facts. Me thinks otherwise
At least the caps lock has been turned off.

 

I don't know about that. the sale wouldn't happen without some investigation, so publishing the title issues on line in a public forum is probably something anyone with a little sense would avoid. the ad did say details upon request, so I wouldn't go that far. Nor is it smart to post the VIN in a public forum (ok in the owner's section or the restricted sections). I don't think anything improper has occurred. It might be different if he had posted something untrue, rather than an omission, or when a potential purchaser asked, he denied it.

Again, it appears that a lot of folks decided to gang up on him, just for the sake of ganging up. I'm still waiting to hear who defrauded Daniel. The silence regarding that is far more important, in my humble opinion.

Art

Art

 

Right. In the museum piece car the salvage title is *worse*.

A lot of posters really need to give it a rest... and should have.. oh... probably MONTHS AGO

It's a cheap entry point into a 348 for someone who only has limited funds to spend.

If you think you're getting a pristine, low mileage, all service up to date virgin for $30k... well then good luck to you.

If you would never buy a salvage title then move on

If you need full detail on the "why" of the salvage (vs... I don't know... relying on a thorough PPI and reports from the mechanic who has maintained it - both *far* more important IMO), then move on

If you think it's too much for a salvage, then make a reasonable counter offer


The OP should have disclosed in the original ad. He didn't. OK. That was worked out by post 10. In AUGUST. It's now November. That's *months*. Picking at a guy. Over a for sale post. It's like a bad marriage! Divorce the thread!

 

Art.

Not so simple and not so fast. It's a buyer beware world out there. This seller got caught trying to pass way more than a simple omission past a bunch of unsuspecting buyers. Once the "omission" was discovered, then the buyer backtracked, and then went into attack/defend mode. This particular forum isn't full on 19 year old kids trying to buy Hondas with air suspensions from other 19 year olds who have discovered they're hard to make work right. It's sophisticated, generally affluent, business guys who don't like to be hoodwinked.

Seller brought this on himself. A simple, straightforward listing from the start, detailing the issue of a salvage title would have been much easier on him. If he'd gone that way, the car would be sold by now, and we'd be talking about Daniel's fraudulent buyer, like we should be.

Dave

 

Actually, lots of the old classic cars could have had salvage titles early in their lives. However, I think, but do not know, that the concept of a salvage title may postdate many of these cars, and good luck getting a guy with a $20,000,000 to $40,000,000 to accept a settlement from an insurance company now that would include totaling the car.

You could build a 250GTO from parts for millions less than their current market value. You could have someone hand beat every panel, Ferrari could build the motor from scratch, you still wouldn't dent the $30+MM these are going for.

It's just not the same kind of deal.

GTOs were raced. Many were wrecked along the way and rebuilt to run again. It has not, in any way diminished their value, nor will it ever do so. Racing history on classic cars adds value. Winning cars adds even more. Winning races generally meant bending the car at some point, fixing it, and driving it again.

D
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That's where I disagree. I wouldn't post those defects on a public forum. Given what had to be done, when it was purchased, I don't think that was the intent.

Art

 

Intent is always hard to judge.

But, if he BOUGHT the car with a salvage title, he knew the diminished value a salvage title brings. He may not have understood the enormity of the question of what a salvage title does to limit potential buyers, but he would have to have known that it devalues the car, as was reflected by his asking price.

We can second guess all day, I'm certain of one thing, we'll never KNOW for certain the seller's intent.

And I'll disagree on the salvage issue being exposed here. Once a buyer entered into negotiations with the seller, a simple carfax would reveal the salvage title, as would seeing a copy of the existing title. Again, we don't know if the seller would disclose that prior to negotiating the price. But it sure as hell would be a problem if he did not disclose it prior to transfer of the title.

D

 

It was this suggestion that set the seller off in the first place.
It WOULD have saved everybody a lot of time.

 

I think this has been a great thread! Tom and all participants have provided almost 3 months of silliness. Good car, bad car, who cares.One of these days this car will sell. I just hope Obama doesn't try and regulate silly forum threads, when they get their hands on the internet.
We should be more worried about BigTex, a member with that kind of post count doesn't just randomly disappear? I hope he is ok.

 

Post #10 of this whole thing shows the seller immediately disclosed the title status to a perspective buyer. He wasn't trying to put one over on anyone he just thought the fact was only pertinent to a real buyer. Maybe waisting some people's time as they said to write an inquiring email. But they were hanging around posting on fchat so how much time was really "waisted" writing an email?

 

That's garbage. He didn't list it as salvage title because he wanted to generate the interest first before showing it's "black mark". Normal protocol ANYWHERE with these cars is to disclose it's salvage title up front, period. Now that the salvage title is out there, he has withheld WHY it's salvage. He's not forthcoming with the car. Never has been and his evasive approach continues.

I happen to think the seller is a jerk. His first strike was the salvage issue. At that point, his reputation here was going to be determined based on his next move. He was either going to come back with:
A. "oh my, my apologies for excluding it. I didn't mean to deceive. This is my first time selling a Ferrari. I'll change it immediately. Please forgive me". Type of answer
B. "you guys are idiots. You guys are mistaken. Etc" while being evasive and vague.

Owner chose B and has never deviated from that course. He's just a jerk. With that being said, I put out an offer at $25k that was realistic and only $4k off his asking price. I've seen salvage 348s go for $23-24k before so my offer wasn't unrealistic. That offer has gone unanswered for the past week. That's fine as I've moved on from being an "interested party with an offer" to "here to watch the train wreck".

Ive owned a 348 before. Great cars. He won't get $29k. You can buy clean title 348s for $32k in better condition. He will probably end up not selling it and telling us how much he "loves it again" or he will eventually sell for somewhere around $26-27k 6 months from now.

 

I'm just trying to point out the fact that in 300 posts the fact that he left out that it was a salvage title at first and was telling this info to the interested parties when contacted evolved into the later posts of how he was trying to pull a fast one a sell the car to a buyer with never telling them it's a salvage car. That's total BS he never even came close to trying to deceive anyone.

Would I personally ever list a salvage title car for sale without putting that info in the original listing? Hell no I wouldn't, but as you said he's a seller trying to generate interest. possible hoping to sway an interested buyer into accepting a salvage title car on the merit of the condition of said car at this time.

You think the seller is a jerk, that's fine, I don't think he cares. I'm not trying to defend him but I wouldn't defend much else that has been said in this thread. People were already gearing up the attack before he made his first response so he came out swinging. It seems he spilled a lot of truths on some peoples heads and they got some hurt feelings. Especially because he won't sell to them at their price and sticks to his own.

I bought a decent good title 348 TB this summer at this price point. Although it had higher miles then this one it is obvious there are clean 348s out there cheap. There is also a still damaged 92 348 for sale on Copart lately receiving bids near $28K and a Buy price of $30K STILL DAMAGED so there are some people out there who will pay for these cars the same as clear title.

I assume you're mad because you think he should sell you the car for $25K because that's "only" $4K less then what he wants. When the ask is $29K $4K is a big discount like 14% ish. Not like knocking $4 off a $150K car. It maybe the difference between him breaking even or losing 4K.

 

I'm 55, but have a certain exposure to the 19 yo kid/Honda crowd. They don't normally put air suspension on their cars, they can't afford it, cut springs and really cheap coilovers yes, air no.

Bump for a nice Ferrari with a salvage title.

 

I think the issue is this:

Some folks hear seem to think the ads are for their entertainment, while the seller was looking to engage those who were serious purchasers.

The attitude of the lookelous is what caused the big upheaval here. Just points out that threads for items to be sold need to be locked, or the rules changed regarding what is acceptable in the comments. The plane site that I frequent Beechtalk.com has stringent rules re: comments on the for sale threads, might make sense here too.

Had the seller attempted to sell the vehicle to a potential real purchaser without disclosure, that would be a whole another issue, but it didn't happen here.

Art