caution regarding well-known detailers

i just want to warn everyone here that if there is a detailer (or any service provider, really) that has nice internet presence, that doesn't necessarily mean it's reality. it's easy to create a synthetic persona online.

particularly with detailers, be careful. talking to the person who will be caring for your prized possession(s) is a good start, but they can certainly be master manipulators, so take care to protect yourself and look into it further. examine the work on other cars they have done - stress that you must see example vehicles and talk to references. ask if they don't meet deadlines, rush to get things done because they are mentally ill, lazy, distracted, etc. check to make sure the detailer has ample (and current) business insurance, a valid driver's license and associated insurance.

the little bit of extra work to protect yourself can be well worth the hassle that could befall you IF you end up getting screwed.

i speak from experience - i had two brand new vehicles damaged by the same guy, most recently my wife's brand new Q5 3.0 S-Line. i was lied to extensively and it cost me massive amounts of time, money and hassle. the only bright spot is that i consider it a lesson learned that i can hopefully impress upon my fellow enthusiasts.

 

Would you care to share who you are speaking of?

 

PM'd

 

i've been getting sporadic PMs about this and the most common inquiry is who did it and what actually happened to my vehicle.

first of all, the business is Oakes Detail in West Chester, PA. many people here know Nick.

keep in mind this is the SECOND new vehicle Oakes Detail damaged.

below (in bold italics) is the original list of issues that i provided him following the initial pick up from his facility. he made me wait about two weeks after receiving this list before he took the truck back. the only things on this list that were properly remedied by him on the SECOND visit were:

1. the finish correction was eventually done to a satisfactory level, but JUST the paint. he did not fix the other numerous correction issues. and there was compound and/or polish dust EVERYWHERE. every. single. crevice.

2. the film was removed...mostly. there were pieces of film and film adhesive in many places. since he waited until the last minute (as usual) to do it...and to coat the vehicle (he was running around the vehicle in a panicked sweat coating the truck when i arrived for the second pickup), he actually put Opti-Coat OVER left over pieces of film and adhesive.

those are honestly the only two things he somewhat resolved for me. i got my money back for the film work and like i might have said, my lawyer said to pursue him for the rest of the stuff would cost me more in time and money than just taking care of it myself. he also feared that if it went to mediation or something that he would be given yet another chance to fix things and that would just be asking for more trouble.

Q5 issues

lines and random textured areas under/on hood film, especially on d-side flat, dead center, up near latch and front/mid p-side; inner fender underhood edges (near hood) popping up

d-side fender film has hand print on top side of body line and creases/lines in places

similar lines under roof film and air lines/pockets

dark smears under top of d-side A pillar film

edges of bumper film coming up in front of wheel wells and collecting dirt (I pressed down several times). areas popping up in front, blemishes/lines and air pockets.

p-side fender film misaligned and hanging off edge near fender lip

mirror film on both sides has random marks; edges on both sides constantly popping up/misaligned/bad cuts

white shipping plastic was under d-side mirror covering part of the window trim (I removed)

Dlux coating missing/uneven/sloppy/overapplied on areas of A pillar rubber; Dlux (or something) was on windshield on p-side along A pillar (I removed)

window trim is either coated unevenly or untreated - it looks terrible/uneven

several large areas toward ends of roof rails either stained with something or uncoated (I cleaned the bare/light spots and coated to see if it changed, which it did) *makes me doubtful about the thoroughness or integrity of the coating work on this vehicle*

razor line on p-side headlamp (****)

odd pitting stain on d-side top of gloss grille trim (I cleaned and polished to see if it changed; moderate improvement)

areas of the car have light scratches. For example, rear near gas cover up D pillar, B pillar trim

adhesive on several areas of inside of windshield (I removed)

dust/dirt all over screen/center console/dash (I lightly cleaned with vac and Opti-Clean wipe but haven't touched since)

dark wipe marks on sail panel, doors cards; some might be leather coating, some might not be - not sure

small hole/cut/rip in d-side door vinyl under metal trim - metal trim was pushed out a bit (tinter? interior guy will be looking at that)

dark/glossy areas on seats from over application of leather coating; lines with drips on door leather inserts (followed directions from Dr. G to try to even them out)

brown spray stains covering entire aluminum hatch floor trim (cleaned then used AIO to remove)

his behavior is inexcusable and ultimately, while he caused me so much hassle, time and money, the biggest thing that i absolutely can't stand is that he lied to my face time after time.

 

Jared McIver, I find it suspect that the issues are just now being surfaced, months after the detail work was completed. In regards to any damages, real or perceived, I have offered and attempted to rectify the issues even down to the replacement of your headlight. Which can be seen in my last email sent to you, which I have not received a response on. I have also refunded you the funds for the work completed on the film install, and I do not know what more you want me to do. I have done everything in my ability which was not to your satisfaction.

In regards to my liability coverage, there are members of this forum who have seen my current and previous liability coverages and are more than welcome to chime in on that matter. I have also attached my last email in attempts to put this bed.
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I have requested and been provided with copies of the declaration pages for Nick's liability coverage dating back to June of 2013.

To the OP, I would strongly caution you to tread very lightly moving forward. It's one thing to post your dissatisfaction with someone's workmanship, but some of your claims are potentially libelous.

 

feeling guilty? i didn't mention anything about your specific liability coverage. i spoke solely of the damage you did to my vehicles.

you find something i do suspect? your whole operation is suspect and i can prove that by how you dealt with me. i'm not the only one and you know that. and for what it's worth, it's not just now surfacing...maybe on fchat, but not in general. though it took a while to gather data, talk to counsel and the like.

you lied to my face - that is where your chance to "fix" anything ends. you have lied endlessly throughout this situation and i can prove that given the various lines of communication that i have archived via text, facebook messages and email. that last email you posted is yet another feeble attempt at trying to con me. as if i'd trust you do try to do anything to my vehicle given what you put me through. NOW THAT'S HILARIOUS. you had your chances, multiple chances. do not attempt to communicate with me any further with your BS. i am doing the public a service by coming out with my story just in case you screw someone again. you did the deeds, this is the least i can do.

haha, oh really? please re-read my posts. nowhere did i make claims about his coverage. i made statements about his damage to my vehicle(s). the other things i stated are additional things to check when looking into people working on your vehicle. it's not specific to anyone.

 

I would check if your detailer has a valid drivers license, has valid insurance at his facility, cause if something bad happens to your car is in his care you will not get any compensation. And if you try to sue him personally you will also get nothing becaue he has nothing.

There is a detailer who I would avoid because:
- he drove a cutomers GTR to AWD Meet a few years back and launced it from every red light intersection. His abuse caused a transmission malfuntion.
- he drove a customers Acrtic Silver M3 and destroyed it
- he has customers pay for a very expensive detail and does nothing to the car excecpt clean it and polish it with a spray gloss.

Keep in mind that this post may be picked apart and called a troll. But it is all true. Use your common sense and ask your detailer to prove that they have a drivers license and valid insurance. Espically get verifation of insurance if you are storing your car at his facililty.

 

I know nothing at all about Oakes Detail but, allow me to say we used a detailer in Manheim, PA who did excellent work on our 575 and our T-Bird. Thorough, timely and reasonable. He expanded and started preparing cars for the auction. Then,he started selling cars. He hired illegals and began an assembly line routine. When he lost our floor mats and failed to rep-lace them, that was it. Never again since we were one of his first customers and he let us down. Rule: No good thing lasts very long.

 

hey Nick Oakes, i am well aware of the lies you are telling people in your little private detailing groups. i have unequivocal written proof of you admitting everything that i've cited as you doing to me at Oakes Detail, through your own messages and communications which have been shared as needed with the proper parties. most importantly, you lying. that is the number one offense which i will not let go. first it was lying to me, now you are lying ABOUT me.

the reason you are silent is because you know i have the proof of what you've done to me, and the testimony from those who know even more...the juicy info. you aren't silent because "you're grinding". don't make this worse for yourself, Nick, by denying what i'm saying you did to me is anything other than 100% true. you f'n scumbag, haha.

also, very public info shows that you kept getting popped for not having your license several times in 2012 as per https://ujsportal.pacourts.us/DocketSheets/MDJCourtSummaryReport.ashx?docketNumber=MJ-15104-TR-0002516-2012

do you have a valid DL now? if you do, great! if not, i should probably be made aware of that, as a concerned party who was lied to countless times about how you treated my vehicles. hey, i'm just checking. you've been driving a lot of customer cars around as per pictures on facebook going back quite some time. all "with permission" and signed permission slips at that, haha. okkkkkay, Nick. that's aside from the people who have told me you took their vehicle(s) without permission. you know exactly who i'm talking about. plus, that M3 that you are so vague about to everyone...which isn't your car. but we know that. in fact is that POS S4 you have even registered to you, Nick? how about the CLA you were so vague about that isn't yours. or the GT3 RS that you told the world you bought.........

keep lying Nick. keep trying me.

or just STFU and don't make things worse. if you continue to lie ABOUT me, things will not improve. at all. and the people you keep confiding in with your total BS will let me know. trust nobody. i made the mistake of trusting a few two-faced individuals with this info, but at least i'm telling the truth to every. single. soul. who hears me.

 

hoo boy, this could have been interesting. I was just warming up the popcorn when 12.3:1 got whacked by the big ol' ban stick.

Was it the generally bad behavior that got him smacked, or the posting of specific user info that did it?

Since the court info is public, that's not really a banning offense, is it?

Why not just let the guy dig a giant hole and bury himself in it?

Dave

 

agreed; I don't understand the ban. The 0384 thread in vintage is loaded w/ libel, but is allowed to keep on chugging - over 2500 posts now. One of the main posters in that thread has posted personal info/messages - those posts have been redacted, but he was never banned.

 

I do have a problem with the poster putting a nonredacted public document containing the targets birth date among other things.

 

Just got a note from Robert.

simple 2 day cooling off period, which is not inappropriate given the tone the OP was taking.

He will be free to continue his diatribe in less than 48 hours.

D

 

But it is a public document.

If he had simply posted, "Geez, you all should search the public record for XYZ" would that have been better?

I do agree that we try to keep ourselves to a higher standard here. We're friends, if only on the internet, and posting this kind of stuff does seem to overstep that bound.

don't like it, but don't think it's a technical violation of the TOS or TOU.

D

 

48 hours isn't too long to wait.

I'm gonna go out to the lobby and get some snacks, then I'll be back for the thrilling conclusion to this tale.

D
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Ohh Boy, more hysterical rants. I only read this because Dave posted, but never again.

In my opinion, if he wants to post information he could start with his name, town and the last time he attended Cars&Coffee. BTW, what does 12.3:1 mean? Something about a conspiracy theory?

 

Whether the document itself is public is not the issue. Whether it makes sense to post personal information online when it can simply be redacted is my concern. Common sense would dictate that nothing good can come from it.

 

Just thought I'd highlight the issue with the OP.

He's not looking for something good to come from it, and common sense seems to be sorely lacking.

Again, goes back to community. Guy comes on here, posts a lot of smack, then goes postal. Community pushes back.

System works.

Posting personal information has happened here before. There was a particularly grouchy user here that took offense to some of MY postings and put as much of my personal info into a post as he could. Mods deleted it.

We used to delete ANY personal information that wasn't posted by the person to whom that info belonged. Guess that's not the policy now.



D

 

12.3:1 is a compression ratio.

FF is 12.3:1

D

 

Ahh! . . . being a gearhead I like that! The rest . . .

Yes, I said I wouldn't come back here, but I always like to read Dave's posts from sunny Florida. Dave, can you include a few photos of bikini clad natives in your next post?

 

I just found this thread. I have say I have had Nick do paint corrections on 3 f my ferrari ' s and he has always done an excellent job. Best ever type jobs. Just my .02
Happy thanksgiving to All

 

Nothing edited, nothing deleted, as Dave said I felt a cooling off for language and tone would be a good idea.

 

I have been contacted privately and private messaged regarding this thread, so to the extent people give a crap about my opinion, I thought I would state it publicly.

Nick is a great detailer. He is meticulous and it shows in the results. My Testarossa has won numerous awards under his stewardship and he maintains three of my other cars as well. Nick the detailer is exceptional. However, he is not superhuman. Do I doubt that over the years mistakes have been made? Of course not. We all do, in every aspect of our daily lives. When mistakes get made, IMHO Nick tries his best to remedy the problem and make the customer happy, which is what he apparently tried to do in this case. The customer is not happy and wants to carp about it months later on F-chat and elsewhere. Apparently, he has an extraordinary amount of free time. Well, that is his prerogative and, as long as he stays in bounds nobody, including Nick, has a right to complain. However, if it extends beyond that to personal attacks, we should all have a problem with that because this isn’t romper room. FWIW, if Nick screwed up my car, he would probably find his body deep in a ditch somewhere, but everyone who touches my car runs that risk—including my idol, Tony at Algar. I get the OP’s frustration, I just think it is horribly misdirected.

As for the driver’s license issue. Whether he has one or not has no bearing on whether he can work a buffer, so it is of no moment to me. However, to the extent he has driven customer cars, his failure to disclose his driver license status is obviously problematic because it impinges on his credibility and could possibly impact his liability coverage. it as also a really F-ing stupid thing to do. I have spoken with Nick about this. In fact, even before this license issue came up, I expressed my concern that he should never drive a customer car for any reason as it is an accident waiting to happen. I think he finally gets that now, which is why the shop secured a trailer to move cars to and from the shop. He just better have someone else driving the truck!

As for his shop’s liability coverage. I have reviewed the declaration pages, I have not gone as far as to contact the insurance agent. I just don’t have that kind of time.

As for the issue of what cars he owns, doesn’t own, blah. Blah, blah…PLEASE SPARE ME … the “new and improved” Cars and Coffee has more embellishment than a fishing trip. Unless Nick can operate a buffer better from a GT3 than in the shop, I could give a crap what he owns.

I don’t know if Nick will respond to this thread, I think he would be a moron to do so. I called him and told him he needs to discuss the allegations in this thread openly and honestly with his customers and not online, which I hope he does.

As an aside, IMHO warning people of a potential problems with a service provider is a public service all of us appreciate, trying to whip up the mob with innuendo and gossip is better served to people who get their news from US Magazine. It should be beneath us.

At the end of the day, he is not running for office, he is detailing cars. If you think he does a good job, use him, if you don’t, don’t. Ask around, get references and make your own decisions. If you have concerns about his liability coverage do your due diligence as you would with any service provider.

My life will not change one bit if Nick’s business succeeds or fails. However, I do see a young guy with a growing business who has great potential. Whether he fulfills that is squarely on his shoulders, but I am optimistic. He is, however, now on notice that he is going to have to step up his game and be more responsible in his personal and professional life. In that respect, there is a silver lining to this thread.

As a final note, it bears repeating that when another well-known detailer offered a free paint correction/ detailing package at a charity event for an animal shelter and then refused to honor it, I contacted Nick.

Nick, who wasn’t even a sponsor for the event and did not look for anything in return, took on the job free of charge. Nick has always been among the first to volunteer for any charity event I organize. So if I appear biased towards him in this spat, forgive me, but I’d rather hitch my wagon to the guy who donates three days of his life to fulfill a charity’s commitment than some dude who suddenly remembered to get pissed off about a detailing job performed months ago.

Just my .02, take it for what it is worth.