Queen Mother vs. Queen Mary vs. Queen?

your date for Concorso??? (sorry, but you teed it up)

I've always believed Queen Mother to be the original moniker.

 

Charles, here's a 1970 Road & Track Cover that calls the car Queen Mother. I've got a Xerox copy but this photo was taken from an on-going eBay auction of an original article.
Tom Kizer

 

Sorry, I forgot the photo.
Tom Kizer
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I have an original November 1969 Road and Track issue that tested the car and the article is headed:

FERRARI 365GT 2+2
The Queen Mother of Ferraris

They joked in the first paragraph:

We can see it now. A used car ad in a newspaper five years from now: "1970 Ferrari sedan, full power and air. lo mi. $10,000."

Jim Walker
#12451

 

Another vote for Queen Mother. I've owned the car for 20 years and that's the way I always heard it referred to.

 

Er, the Queen Mother you've posted a picture of was Queen Elizabeth, like her daughter, not Queen Mary. And since good old Liz has been Queen for over 50 years, I'd hazard that when Jenks was referring to the Queen Mother he meant her.

When was the last QM called Mary?

 

To my knowledge there has never been a "Queen Mother Mary" who was a mother of a Queen (in England & Scotland that is). A couple of Annes, a Margaret, a Catherine, but no Mary's that I know of.

The last "Queen Mother" was Queen Mary wife of George V and the mother of two kings, Edward VIII and George VI.

Wow, talk about a thread hijack...

T308
(Who now fears he's given away too much.....)

 

Does anyone know in which issue of Autocar Dennis Jenkinson drove the 365 GT 2+2? I'm guessing I won't get an exact date, but if anyone reckons they know which month and year - please let me know.

Whether it's 'Queen Mother' or 'Queen Mary' seems trivial, but it interests me to know where the latter came from. The original R&T test evidently called it the former, although it's not clear why. The writer essentially says: 'It's big enough to be a sedan... therefore it is the Queen Mother of Ferraris'. Am I the only one not following that logic...?

I'd like to see Jenkinson's test to see whether he definitely called it the 'Queen Mary', alluding to the sense of luxury also found on the ship of the same name. This seems to be the most likely scenario: two nicknames that appear to be related, but which are not.

 

I would be surprised if Jenks wrote for 'Autocar' at that time or indeed at all.

He was Continental Correspondent for 'MotorSport', writing as DSJ, for most of his life and although he did sometimes write about specific road cars, most of his input was on the F1 scene or racers in recent years.

 

Certainly, if he did write it, it would have been a freelance piece. I've posted elsewhere that I'd like to see the original to verify the claim that (a) it exists, and (b) the specific 'Queen Mary' wording was used.

If he didn't and it doesn't, then it still doesn't clarify where this (later?) nickname came from, given R&T's original one.

 

I've only seen the Road & Track article. You have to understand that, at the time, the Queen Mother (whose name was Elizabeth) was in her late 60s, and viewed as someone who, while highly refined and dignified, also had a bit of a sporting nature.

This was what the article was referring to-- the car is big, refined (for the era), yet still can be sporting when the occasion calls for it.

 

As a point of interest, the very long trucks used by the RAF to carry aircraft during and after WW2 were known as 'Queen Mary's.

 

Here is one! Is this what the writer was alluding to - rather than the Queen Mother?
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Interesting take on it. Odd that this is not how the article is written though - in the first par, it jumps straight from 'This is a big Ferrari' to 'It is the Queen Mother'.

I'm still interested to know how the 'Queen Mary' nickname was derived. Will find out whether this alleged Autocar road test by Jenks actually exists or not...

 

Queen Mary (died 1953) was wife of George V, Queen Mother of Edward VIII & George VI, grandmother of the present Queen.
She still lives on in the popular imagination as a notorious solicitor of gifts. Many noble families hid away attractive items that she might see when coming to visit as it was her habit to 'ask' for things she liked, and rather difficult to refuse.

 

I think the story goes like this:
1. Jenks referred to it as the Queen Mother denoting a very stately and respectable member of the Ferrari family.
2. Someone else (who?) picked up on this and then thought Queen Mary was an appropriate name for a large stately vessel - as per the Cunard liner Queen Mary, and also the RAF WW2 transporters which were nick-named after the liner.
Let's face it the QM does look a bit of a barge compared to it's siblings, though it does go and handle really well for a car of that size and era.

 

That bottom photo looks like a DUDE?

 

Doug Nye, care to chime in?

 

In the official Haymarket archive (now publisher of Autocar), there is no reference whatsoever to a road test of the 365 GT 2+2 by Dennis Jenkinson in period.

Unless someone can prove otherwise, it didn't exist.

 

So maybe the Road & Track test was where the phrase was coined

 

Road & Track definitely coined it 'Queen Mother' - I have an original copy of the road test. I'm still trying to find out how that got tweaked to 'Queen Mary' in the course of time though.

I would argue that the latter is the more common nickname in the UK, but where did it come from? Just someone hearing it as 'Queen Mother' but repeating it as 'Queen Mary'??

 

I agree. I have always associated the name Queen Mary with the car and assumed it was derived because of it is both majestic and large.

Interesting to learn of origin of Queen Mother which looks like a play on the words "Mother of all Ferraris" rather than a reference to our much loved and dear departed Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother. Any suggestion of similarity between the car and the late Queen Mother should be considered as treason.

 

+1. As I stated previously, the original R&T article seemed to draw a direct link between the size of the vehicle and being 'the Queen Mother'. Grounds for invasion, surely?