What a wonderful world.
What I'm pointing out is that electric cars are not zero emissions. People and legislators are becoming more and more aware of that. They are also aware that there are better global solutions that turning to one of the rarest resources on the planet mined by slave-labor.
Do you know that the manufacture of batteries for hybrid cars is so toxic that they cannot be made in the US, Canada or the EU? But, in typical elitist fashion the good people of places like Paris, London and Rome want their cities to be pristine, even if it means that millions of people in third world countries walk through lithium, cadmium, lead, zinc, mercury and host of toxic compounds needed to make batteries for zero-emission cars.
True. What electric cars do is shift the pollution from cities (although not as much if the electricity is produced there from dirty sources) where it tends to be worse. There have been studies that show Priuses and their ilk are a lot less green than they seem when you take into account production and disposal. In any case, is it F1's place to lead in such technology in the first place?
For you engineer types, here is an article from the Institute of Electric and Electronic Engineers that covers the subject of electric vs. conventional car emissions. Unclean at Any Speed - IEEE Spectrum One highlight, provided by the National Academies, is the total pollution created by different fuel types, in order of least polluting to most polluting they are; CGN, diesel, gasoline, electric, hydrogen.
You got it. No, it is not F1's place - and that the real point here. Even worse when F1 jumps on the wrong bandwagon
A good article. It shows that an holistic approach is needed. I like some of the newer carbon negative models. Most interesting is that these work with internal combustion engines and pretty much the same distribution infrastructure.
Electric cars are zero emission AT THE POINT of use, which is all important in high density urban areas. Where the electricity is produced (with fossil fuel or other) is mostly out in the countryside, where the pollution doesn't affect millions of people in the same way. Some electricity can even be produced by renewable energy (wind farm, hydro, KERS, etc...) I am just saying that hybrid and electric technologies are very relevant. I reserve my judgment about their introduction in motor racing. But I suppose that F1 and WEC are good showcases to convert the public.
Is that so bad then? Millions live in cities, and you can put power stations in uninhabited areas. Electricity can be produced from renewable sources (sun, wind, water, thermal effect, etc..).
That's a very narrow and blinkered view. Global warming certainly doesn't understand the city limits of Paris. The smog and toxic waste produced from power-stations and in the production of hybrid cars likewise doesn't magically disappear as it approaches a boarder.
It's better but not ideal. I'm not going to open the global warming debate nor the issue of acid rain but they are concerns to some and aren't plant location sensitive. Bear in mind that we're not talking about the same energy infrastructure. Here in the U.S. a lot of our electricity still comes from coal.
Not just the US. Most grid electricity globally is produced from coal/fossil fuel burning. What's more that won't change for a long time. Whether you are a global warming believer or skeptic, there are solutions on the table that are carbon negative and don't require a shift from ICEs and can use current distribution infrastructure. Choosing these, or at least investigating these, gives the global public the option of keeping there current form of cars and no need to change the infrastructure already in place to distribute our fuel. Why try and force people to change when it's not needed. Ironic if driving a gas guzzler ends out being the best way to reduce atmospheric carbon
The fact is that some city centers are reaching alarming pollution levels, and that the authorities have to do something about it before more people have breathing problem created by a high density of carbon in their blood, before all kids develop allergies and chronic bronchitis, etc... It's a health problem. The same doesn't seem to affect folks in the countryside. It's a health problem of massive importance. Of course, the authorities could ignore it and not look for solution. Any option will have people in favour and detractors. Personally, I am glad they look for solutions, rather than bury their head in the sand.
How is it that the US, which is probably the most technically advanced country, still uses such an archaic method? Coal-fired power stations are the most polluting form of energy production. In Western Europe, coal has been almost abandoned everywhere in favour of gas, nuclear, hydro, solar or wind power. Coal is definitely a no-no !
If you really believe that then you should be all for stopping the proliferation of grid electricity. You are arguing against electric cars now. Electricity today, and for a long time into the future will generate massive amounts of atmospheric carbon. If you want to dream about changing the global grid generation significantly away from that, you need to think about the investment needed to build all these alternate power generation units you are putting forward. That's going to take a very long time. There are better solutions, but you need to take those grid-electricity blinkers off to start with
I think F1 has been chosen as a showcase for this new technology. The constructors wanted it. It seems to backfire; the general public doesn't follow F1, and the fans are disgusted.
Politics. Too many constituencies are dependent on coal production and the sclerotic partisan nature of our politics prevents even a discussion. MB and Renault wanted it. Todt caved.
I don't know where you are, but the search for alternative (non-pollution) energy source is ongoing here. In Western Europe and Scandinavia, governments are spending billions in these projects. The problem exists, and we cannot ignore it. Pollution affects people more than we think.
Geez man next thing you'll be telling us is that man descended from monkeys and that the earth revolves around the sun. You Europeans and your elitist ideas!
I agree with you here mate, but you are promoting about the biggest polluter as the solution. As I said, there are better/smarter solutions out there - just take off your battery-blinkers A few images of how every one of those batteries in all electric cars are made. Also, the toxic wastes from these get into water, and that too knows no country borders and lasts many many generations. It gets into food chains as well. One more thing, all done in China, so we can be sure they are following the best and safest practices and, when they tell us they are doing so we can be absolutely sure they are telling the truth. Image Unavailable, Please Login
We may look like that, between the East and the USA who don't seem really concerned about the problem.
What problem? As long as the music is playing we dance. The environmental issues are real but it's our unwillingness to address them that's truly frightening. Perhaps in an eon or two the next alpha species will do better.
I am not the advocate for the electric car. I just explained that it will be imposed upon us here. I will certainly consider carefully which type of car I will be buying in future, and it may be an hybrid. I wouldn't like to spend $60,000 on a new set of wheels, just to see it legislated off the road. My personal taste will have nothing to do with it.
Good to hear you're open on the topic. The more people push back and not just swallow the BS that's often fed to them, the more smart leaders will look to real and viable alternatives.
