Like you, I came here from a long history of Porsche ownership- sold my 993 and bought the 308 in 2010. The 993 was better as transportation, but the 308 has been much more exciting and entertaining experience. I'm looking to get another Porsche to use as a "car", but I'll be keeping the 308. To quote Sam Spade in the Maltese Falcon, who was loosely quoting Shakespeare- "It is the stuff dreams are made of." And like you, my name is Jeff.
There are outliers in every market. Here's a link from a few years ago where the outrageous asking price was $47.5K... http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/308-328/350882-85-308-%2447-000-a.html From what I see, fair market now for an average 308 (lumping the models and years together) is around $40K - $50K with nicer examples and unique models going for +$50K, and lesser examples less than $40K. Prices have shifted upward from a few years ago. We are in the winter lull right now so it will be interesting to see where this market goes in the spring when traditionally more 308s and cars in general are put up for sale by individual owners.
It's not so much a bubble as the fact the USD is worth less every day. See this car? 1986 Ferrari 328 GTS 58,000 miles, grey 328 driver quality, $55K. In 2002 I bought essentially the same car (52,000 miles) for $40,000 The inflation calculator at Inflation Calculator | Find US Dollar's Value from 1913-2014 says that $40,000 in 2002 is equivalent to $52,500 today.
The bubble is not with 308/328, it's with collector cars in general and Ferrari's specifically. So for the 308/328 bubble to pop, first the overall collector car bubble has to pop. Does anyone think that's going to happen anytime soon? American muscle cars, European classics, etc. Pretty much every classic car has become desirable and has bumped up to the $100k mark. But let's keep it real, the 308/328 are the last cars to make it to the party. The idea that they don't deserve to be there when nearly every other collector car is already there is pretty pessimistic. The 308/328 have been talked down and "unloved" for so long, when they are finally loved, it's difficult for people to get their head around. Tips hat to Big red. -F
True, but to be fair, during the crash in values during the early 90's even blue chip Ferrari's lost value. -F
I agree with all the sentiment regarding the 308 (and to me the GT/4 included) deserving the recognition it appears to be getting at the moment. Still, I think for the group, Tillman hit the nail on the head. It's very little more than inflation/devaluation of the dollar when it comes to US sale prices. There are always outliers based on quality or rarity (near-concourse or VRs, for example). Again, the EU prices are strange right now. As Nerofer points out, prices are not through the roof, but cars are hard to find. In the UK cars are through the roof, but it seems many are coming to market. In Italy, very few cars are available. Compared to 18-24 months ago when there were 4 Vetroresinas on the market at once, not at auction, all under €100K (and one at €40K), things have changed. At the same time, there were at least a dozen dry sump GTBs. Not so now! Rather than a bubble, this may be a deserved trend towards our 308s actually achieving more widespread regard by collectors (which may be why we are seeing the EU activity I mentioned). As for a bubble, I just don't see it right now. As an aside, I view this topic as not being about the money, but about the inherent value of what I feel is a work of art! Ciao! Hannibal
FYI guys, for the last 6 months or so the dollar has been getting stronger against both the pound and the euro. By about 11% against the pound, 15% against the euro.
I tried to get in touch with Ron to find out what the heck is going on. He bought my 1926 Ford Indy Speedster which I see is going up for auction this week at BJ. I knew I sold it at way too low a price Image Unavailable, Please Login
The US market for 308/328 is pretty self contained so changes in currency wouldn't have a direct effect on values. And as far as just correcting to keep up with the difference in values between the US and Euro markets, the US market has never really correlated with the Euro market. It's as if they were on different planets. There are various reasons for that. I don't know him. Elaborate on what he has to say. There are many reasons to make an argument for a correction in collector car values. -F
(Quote) "I don't know him. Elaborate on what he has to say. There are many reasons to make an argument for a correction in collector car values." Ron Pratt is probably one of the largest private collectors here in Arizona. He is a staple at the Barrett Jackson auctions and also is one of the highest bidders I have ever come across in my 71 years. I was absolutely shocked when I learned he was selling his entire collection.
I see it more as a trend than a bubble. In absolute terms, prices aren't really that high. There aren't many 308s on the market in the US, meaning not many people are tempted to sell at current price levels here. Depressed supply probably will boost prices a bit, especially toward the spring. I followed FML for six months before giving up and then getting a heads up on a local car bought for resale by FoSD.
But that is exactly what makes it a bubble. When people stop trading because they believe the prices will continue to rise, and buyers pay inflated prices for the few cars on the market that's signs of a bubble ready to break. I hope I'm wrong. There are a lot of auctions coming up next week. I guess we don't have long to wait to see.
Exactly with is why the comment about devaluation of the dollar was not only incorrect, but not relevant. Unless of course you are trying to buy a car from one side of the pond to bring to the other, which favors the American side. Ron Pratt has bee addressed in a previous post.
The first time 308 prices rise in how many years and some owners first thoughts are "it's a bubble." Have some confidence in the cars and its ability to attract enthusiasts. No group of Ferrari owners keep their own cars values down as much as 308 owners; it's not an insult, it's a fact. Embrace the uptick.
I'm still not getting where he's coming from. Maybe he's just done with collector cars and sees this as a high time so he's deciding at this point in his life to move on. Is that it or is there more to it? I can come up with my own reasons to be bearish on the collector car market but I'm curious what is driving Ron Pratt. -F
I'm a noob - so what do I know? I'm buying my first Ferrari (78 308 GTS). Admittedly, some of it is because of the dreams of my youth. But, some of it is because I don't want to miss an opportunity. A few years ago, I looked at a 64 or 65 330 GT. It was perfect and $80K. That same car today has a market value of $275,000 to $350,000. It is now out of reach. So - I committed now, I'm delighted, and I won't look back. Worrying about a bubble is for flippers. I'd rather worry about where I'm going to park it when I take the wife out to dinner for the first time!
Congrats to you! A lot of people that have wanted one for some time are stepping up. Your timing is good.
5.5 years of ownership for me. It was my dream car growing up and I got it...bubble or no, the car stays...although for the right money I MIGHT sell it, but would be right back in another one. PDG
Prices generally rise and fall, so not all rising prices are a bubble. When people are buying something not because they want it at that price, but because they hope to sell it for even more... That's a bubble. Are we seeing a 308 bubble, or just seeing more people who want 308s and find themselves in a position to buy one driving prices up? It depends on the motivation of the buyers.
