Ferrari Dealership vs. Independant vs. DIY

Hi there Ferrari owners,

We have hijacked the thread on the "In car cam belt service" long enough. I would like some of your thoughts and experiences with Ferrari dealerships regarding the quality of their work. Also, whether a prospective purchaser such as myself should place a premium on Ferrari dealership receipts vs. receipts from an independent mechanic vs. a DIY seller who claims to have performed the work in a diligent and competent manner.

Thus far there has been an indication that Ferrari dealerships are not to be trusted. I am very surprised and disappointed to hear the amount of dissatisfaction and mistrust that seems to exist. Particularly when they are charging 6-8K for a major service. I thought this type of cash would provide an owner with some modicum of confidence that the work is being done, and being done properly. Maybe not. Thoughts? Only first hand experiences please.

 

Nothing wrong with a dealer but you will pay full retail for everything.

Independents (I am one) might be a good choice depending on their experience and history.

DIY is a big variable. Certainly anyone that proposes to do a major without removing the engine should be avoided like the plague.

 

Gotcha. I have read that when looking to purchase one of these vehicles, there should be about 30K dollars worth of maintenance receipts that prove it has been well cared for. I guess that is really the question I am asking: Is there a "best practices" way of determining whether or not a F355 has been properly maintained?

 

It's not a dollar figure but a stack of records that shows an owner (or all the owners) was responsive without letting things lapse.

You generally don't fix what the car doesn't need but the 3-5 year major service is what you look for. So a 20 yar old car would have gone through 4-6 major services with annual fluids generally.

Robb

 

Thanx Robb.

 

Agree with Robb. If the records are thorough (at least for the current owner who has owned it for a significant period of time), it implies some level of care for:

1. The experience and reputation of whoever did the services
2. Doing what's right for the specific car

Whether that's a dealer, an indie or even a DIY, the thoroughness of records and ability of the owner to answer to common technical issues on the car are key.

 

That really is ridiculous, $30,000 spent doesn't mean ****.

receipts for parts purchased is one thing you want. I mean I'm a DIY but I have the receipts to back up my purchases. Were I save cash is my labor rate is Way less than the Ferrari Service center.

Personally I have the Mechanic License to back up my DIY work. Also a FAA A&P Licensed mechanic.

 

I'm casually doing my major right now. There are many while you are in theres. I'm also doing a gold kit. Receipts I have for the big items but there are a thousand little things like the receipts for the gates powergrip hose clamps which are superior and better for silicone hoses than screw hose cutter clamps. I may buy radiator hose in 3ft lengths but only use 8" at a time. I might have a new old stock radiator plug and replace an old nasty one. Its my car I'm not buying my car for the next guy.

A low mile garage queen has just as many things to replace and refurbish as a car with high miles if you want to put it back into service. A smart new owner will go through everything to his standard anyway whether he diy's or uses a pro. Pros don't have the lock on doing things right. They just have a higher likelihood of doing things right and experience counts. There are many one model enthusiasts who will know much more than a pro who needs to fix a whole line of Ferraris.

 

Do you own a 355?

 

Thanx for all of the responses and your thoughts guys. Well said.

To lotusk, no, I don't own a F355 (Red Honda S2000 and WRB Subaru WRX STi) I have been researching these cars for a little over 6 months now, and I am currently selling some property down in Colorado, so I am going to be pulling the trigger as soon as things start to thaw out here in Canada.

We have already purchased our plane tickets (wife, two kids, and I) for a flight back to Montreal on June 3, 2015, for the F1 race there. Currently there is one F355 in Kelowna, B.C. being sold by Motor Werke for a customer, Barrie Clift, which looks absolutely stunning, as well as a few on Autotrader out in Toronto and Montreal which are listed for 15 - 20K less. So, the plan at this point, is to either purchase the one in Kelowna, or wait until we fly back east and then ship the car back via TFX International. They've quoted me $2200 from Toronto to my doorstep, and about $2700 from Montreal, which seems very reasonable given that it is a fully enclosed trailer and they seem to specialize in this type of transport.

 

You've got a great start to the summer lined up.
Let's see photos of the 355 when she's yours.
Travel and drive safely.

 

Thanx lotusk. Looking forward to it, and I will definitely post pics asap. I've never been to an F1 race (huge fan). On a side note, I just checked Autotrader and it looks like the F355 in Kelowna posting is being removed. I kinda figured it might be sold before I get my funds together. It really is a beautiful car.

 

The records that are most important are those that are recent. Bills for important repairs during the car's life tell you what broke and needed fixing.

Don't be too surprised if there weren't engine-out services done every 3 years. When I started doing this timing belts were considered a 15,000 mile service item. It was rare to see a car actually driven that far. I bought my own 348 with less than 17K miles, it was 22 years old. It had no records, I doubt the timing belt had been done more than once if even that. It's a mechanically excellent car in spite of that. Times have changed and many years have now passed. Focus primarily on the work done in the last two or three years.

 

+1

But if there is a record of only one recent major service...

Then you have to wonder where it has been - or been through.

Robb

 

So, what real relevance is there in a 15 year old invoice? As Tim says, the past three to five years are the most interesting ang telling. That said, just paid 15K for a fully serviced, new exhaust spyder. Great service records.

Oh, did i mention the clean title but significant front end damage? If someone were to repair this, next owner would never know. NO it is NOT for sale, whole or parts! please don't contact me on this. It will be used for in house parts only, plus some interetsing man cave items.

 

Nice score!

 

New potential owners always want records. They have no clue what to do with records. Mechanics never look at them either. When was the last time a pro asked to see your records. Records are useful when pros take a doctor's mentality to look back to make sure they are solving problems not replacing parts. Too many pros and almost all diy'ers are part replacers. For example looking back at the recs for a particular car I see cats replaces 3 times by pros. Everyone replaced the failed part. Nobody found the cause of the failed part.

I forgot about the 15k mile belt change interval. What you say is true. I'm not exactly sure how the 3 or 5 yr thing stuck. Belt dynamics are weird. Some engines vibrate differently or something and eat belts faster than others. Why is a ferrari interval so short 5y or 15kmiles? 90's volvo's are the only other engine that used to eat timing belts where volvo speced 60kmile replacements then silently reduced that to 30kmiles. It seems like a 5yr 348 /355 change interval works but to my knowledge Ferrari never published a TSB that said that like they did for say the 575M.

 

Tech Bulletin #1215 dated May of 2004.

All 8-cylinder engines get timing belts every 3 years or 30K miles, whichever comes first.

I always ask new clients for their records. I like to know what I'm getting into.

 

Great information guys. Although I have been buying and selling vehicles for years, this process is a bit different. As people have commented, buying a Ferrari isn't like buying other vehicles, but perhaps I have been approaching this process a bit too "critically".

On the other hand, some of this comes from information I read which stated that the con rods on these cars are titanium (as well as the 360 etc.), and as the exhaust gases pass by the rings, the oil can become acidic if it isn't changed in accordance with the Ferrari maintenance schedule, which will result in corrosion of the con rods and potentially catastrophic engine failure. That is one of the reasons I have felt that the vehicle's entire maintenance history is important. Any thoughts on this issue?

 

I literally had rocket scientists ask me how to remove a 12 point bolt.

If you want a good car have a great mechanic PPI it. The person that gets my car after I am done will get no records and 99% chance they know me and the car.
If I am handed a stack of receipts I will read them as a SNL skit when I need a good laugh.

Sorry the car speaks for itself

 

I hear ya, and that is a great position to be in SoCal. My son was born in Pomona General Hospital when we lived there, so I am somewhat familiar with the area. The big difference for me now, however, is there are 500,000 people living in my entire Province, and you could fit CA, WA, OR, and NV in it, easlily. No joke. Ferraris aren't exactly the preferred mode of transportation here: think more like lifted Ram Truck with loud exhaust belching diesel. There isn't a Ferrari dealer in the entire province, so imagine that kind of area without any Fcars or owners? The nearest dealership is in Calgary AB, which is a six hour drive out of province from here. There is not one Ferrari for sale in my entire province on Autotrader, Kijiji, ebay, or Canadian Black Book. You're probably catching my drift: How does a potential buyer purchase a car when there is pretty much no chance he will ever "get to know" the seller, and the nearest cars are in Toronto and Montreal which is about the same distance as Billings, MT, to Burlington, VA? The only thing I can come up with is receipts and a PPI, but I guess the receipts maybe aren't worth the paper they are written on???? Hmmm...

 

That's news to me. I wouldn't worry too much about connecting rod corrosion. Most Ferraris get oil changes more often than needed, particularly here in the Great White North.

 

Yeah I read it in one of the "Buyer's Guides". Good to hear about the oil changes 2NA.

 

Just get yourself a good PPI

Engine compression and leakdown
Make sure it shifts when warm, no smoke on start up.
These motors run dead quiet when correct, if you here any noise expect some bad lifters or injectors. No biggy I bet more then half the 355's out there have a few bad lifters and leaky injectors.
OEM cats WILL go bad and do damage. Get rid of them asap if not done already.

That will cover most issues, expect to do a belt service with any new purchase so budget that to be safe.

 

Excellent advice!! Much appreciated. Cheers.