the Bonhams car will be a good indicator........auction is Thursday
I thought the FOD car was a bit high, but it had full service and certification and such - sold before it got out of the shop... Mark had a couple guys want to sit in his car at a show over a weekend and it sold a day or two later...
I had flights booked and missed it by a few days. (Couldn't get out there till a Saturday...) In hindsight, the $64K asking wasn't bad. It did have a bit of "Colorado road rash", but looked like an honest car. Regardless, it sold locally before Sean the salesman could get photos posted. At the time, I had been in a "$50K buys a nice QV" mindset, so only one guy to blame.
Always interesting to see how market differ across the Atlantic... Top-notch 328s are now in the 90-100 k€ asked price here; nice cars are 70 - 75 it seems, although there is so few 328s for sale that you cannot qualify this as a "market". 308 QVs are from 40 to 60 k€ (except some top-notch cars: a 1984 GTB with 10.000 miles is at 120 k€ for instance; she was sold new in East Germany in 1984, and has the papers to prove it (yes!)). 430 are 70-85 k€ (leaving the extremes aside); 360 are 45-65; 355 are 40-60 348 are 30-40 550 are 50-70, but firming up. And...and...you might even find some 599 around 90 k€ So yes, if your budget is not sufficient for a very good 328, you have the alternative of a 430. If it is, you are forgiven to think about a 599...cause it is possible. Not easy, but possible. Or a 360, 355, 550 with some change left, or almost two 348s... Rgds
Is it my imagination, or are '84QVs suddenly popping out of the woodwork starting on pages 6 and 7 of this thread?
"Private transactions" = private. I think that's why Hagerty and FML are trailing the market right now - need public sales data. There are actually quite a few 328s for sale in the US - Marshall Goldman has at least five on offer. Most 308s and 328s I see at UK dealers like Nick Cartwright are "POA" at this point, so hard to determine. But the UK seems like its own universe with regard to classic Ferrari pricing.
Seems like it. Ferrari of San Diego really couldn't be bothered with 308/328s a few years back. Now they seem eager to deal in them, and even Michael Sheehan seems to have lost his aversion to 308s (sold an '85 recently).
Fun to watch this move in asking prices. I,for one, was never comfortable leaving a 20k 308 in the parking lot of the grocery store..even less so with a 80k one. Think nothing of leaving my 335i in same parking lot (parked safely out in the badlands of course). Prices in USD Btw ;-)
I concur about Sheehan; I had asked them a question recently, and they were very inquisitive about my '83....follow up etc....
Last April when I listed my project cars, I spoke with an owner here with two "need nothing" 308s. A 1977 red/black 40K miles A 1982 black/tan 15K miles car that "look and drove as new" I held the secret as IF I had realized a sale on mine I could have bought his 1977 for $35K. I talked to him yesterday, both cars went to the UK last month, for "above $50K each" and the new owner called back to complement condition. So, IMO, there's a spread between the run down need everything cars and the legitimate 'pampered survivors"...but there's no doubt the top numbers are heading up. I always thought they would, but there are certainly better investment plays. I kept one, to drive.
Well that's the problem isn't it? Without knowing what they're trading for how can one know the market?
This is a nice car. Even the engine compartment looks good - the air filter stencil is still in place too. Doesn't appear to be patina on the driver bolster either. Even lower mileage 1982 Ferrari 308 GTSI with 3 bids - currently at $80K http://www.ebay.com/itm/151549578998?forcerRptr=true&item=151549578998&viewitem=&sspagename=ADME:SS:SS:US:1120 I'd still take the 1984 QV over this one.
There's also a huge break between injected and carbed cars.. And a small break in carbed cars, between NON CAT and CAT equipped that most likely the newbs in the market do not even see, but the cognoscenti well know...
"There are actually quite a few 328s for sale in the US - Marshall Goldman has at least five on offer." - Bullfighter Last week Marshall Goldman was listing zero (0) 328s available as I recall commenting to another F-Chatter that the Black/Red and others were gone. Perhaps dealers are gearing up for the kick-off of Auction Mania week(s) to snare non-winning bidders who are in the mood to have their itch scratched.
I know MG well. They buy cars and hold them until the market climbs. he has bunch of Testarossas both reg and TR that he has in his warehouse.
We've seen it in the early Porsche world... Europeans re-import these cars from the US due to the price difference. And that reduces the quantity here. The dealer/restorer that did my 356 sends a LOT of these cars to Europe, where our prices look like a deal. Not sure we have proof, but it's fair to say that with the UK market at "POA" pricing on these cars the US market couldn't linger under $50K forever.
are there any other 308's at Scottsdale this week? (Or 328's?). I only know of the one at bonham's.....
It's difficult. But sometimes "non-transactions" shed some light. For example, I was offered, by a dealer in southern California, a '77 308 at $62K late last summer. It wasn't my dream car, but it was exceptionally nice. I agreed to the price via email, went to the dealership soon afterward with my checkbook, and was told the car "wasn't available yet". Not a problem, because I wasn't in a hurry and could wait. I offered to leave a deposit check for purchase when the car was ready, but that was declined. I followed up via email a few weeks after that, and received no reply. So... no hard data, but I would guess the dealer had an opportunity to sell it for more to someone else. Hagerty won't capture that, but it tells me a dealer came up with a retail price and then realized it was too low. That suggests the market is moving up more quickly than the usual wholesale-retail spread could cover. I think you have to be in the market, looking for cars and making calls, to see what's actually happening.
