488 GTB (458 replacement)

Hope your friend doesn't read this - Lol

 

Now...after the unveiling of the 2016 Acura NSX with a hybrid power plant I ask...why can Acura do a hybrid sports car for $150K and Ferrari cannot make a hybrid 458 for over $300K??? This story of "hybrids are to expensive for Ferrari V8s" sounds fishy...
You might also notice that after years of bashing hybrids, the FCA CEO Sergio Marchionne has finally admitted that there are multiple hybrids coming from FCA in the 2016-2017 timeframe, including Maserati and Alfa Romeo models.

 

First of all, where did you see Sergio saying that ferrari were going to be coming out with hybrids and could you please link it. Second, you're already late on asking why ferrari won't do hybrids and only turbo's. I already asked it, check out page 29 and go on from there.😊

 

Here is the link to the future Ferrari engine strategy...namely V8 turbo and V12 hybrids.
http://blog.caranddriver.com/ferrari-adding-turbos-hybrids-to-every-future-engine/
As for being late asking...great minds think alike...

 

Thanks.

 

Keep in mind that Roberto Fedeli, the former 26 year chief of Ferrari R&D, was poached by BMW at the same time (within 3 days) of the article you linked. Fedeli was expert in hybrid powertrains, composites and supercars. This would impact the likelihood of the article's statement: A new FF and F12 "could be re-engineered” with hybrid systems in 2016 and 2017".

Personally, I hope that a hybrid F12 isn't the F12 GTO (final version whatever) that has been discussed. Its hard enough to keep the regular battery happy. Can't imagine the PIA a mega lithium would be. Just add more power to the 6.3L, increase the revs, drop some weight, add the CCM4 brakes and upgrade the traction control systems. Maybe adjustable suspension and a little fatter tires. Hmmm.

 

To my current knowledge neither the F12 or FF will receive KERS in their current iteration. It might be a possibility on the next platform, but again it's all a matter of costs. Otherwise I agree upon the formula you propose for the F12 M.

 

It is beyond doubt that all future engines for all performance cars will be turbo. It is also probable that all future high performance sport cars will see a combination of electric motors to drive the front wheels to provide instant torque and 4 wheel drive capability with turbos driving the rear.

 

Ferrari has stated V8 will be FI but V12's will remain NA with the help of KERS.

 

Does FI muffle or alter the sound of an engine like turbos or is it similar to NA?

 

do not think that the plans to develop the hybrid system will change, as Roberto fedeli was replaced by Michael Leiters, who was responsible for development of systems hybrid in Porsche as well as development of Cayenne hybrid

 

FI is a turbo. Forced Induction.

 

Gotcha.

 

I know he replaced Fedeli but if you compare resumes, Michael Leiters is no Roberto Fedeli! I don’t have all his info but Michael Leiters, although he was CTO at Ferrari since January, is featured as having various positions at Porsche most notably SUV Project Manager. A project manager is a far cry from his new position at Ferrari. To give an idea of where he comes from here is a statement from an interview with him from 2009 at an SUV launch “we have always been very concerned about social acceptance - social acceptance as to environment and fuel consumption”.

Compare that to this description of Roberto Fedeli: “Fedeli joined Ferrari in 1988 and has been responsible for the engineering of all Ferrari cars since 2007. His most recent model is the limited production LaFerrari gasoline-electric hybrid supercar, the fastest road car built to date by the company”.

I’d say that an SUV project manager has a thing or two to learn about Ferrari’s complete research and development program before he goes off and designs the next FF or F12. No doubt this will push back Ferrari hybrid development. The hybrid drive in Porsche’s SUVs is totally opposite in functionality and purpose compared to the KERS drive in the LaF (and going back to the 599 demo concept).

After looking up this guy Leiters, I am also getting concerned for the future of Ferrari. A screaming NA V12 with visceral feel and enthusiasm is not what I would call in line with a guy who gets off on "social acceptance".

 

I'm glad I'm getting a Speciale. The Ferrari we know may soon be history. Maybe it's time to get off this ride...

 

I would invite you to look at the organization, not the single people. Companies survive transitions like the one you mentioned...Apple anyone? The engineers are the same. Let's hold our judgement for now... And as an engineer, I can tell you that those V12 hybrids are already in development...

 

So non of the original engineers that worked there from the Luca era have changed? Its just the people in charge? Do they have anything to do with how the cars are built and designed--especially Sergio?

 

The One Off and Special Project cars are designed by Ferrari but built and engineered by Evotek Engineering Srl.

 

So long as all of the same engineers are still working, everything should be the same as it always is. But what about who plans out and signs off on the future cars? Does Amedeo handle that and what does Sergio do when it comes to the new cars? The reason why I'm asking questions like these is because I'm slightly worried about Ferrari's future cars now that Luca and some of the earlier people are gone.

 

We won't really know how well things are under SM's command until the F12 Replacement.
Everything that comes before that will have little or no influence from him since they have
already been in the pipeline.But you can be guaranteed that he will take volume to 10k

 

Aye.

 

As an engineer, you should also know that system requirements come from the top and when finance and accounting get involved from something like, say being spun off as a standalone company and getting saddled with a bunch of debt, engineers are left cutting features and shortening test to pull in costs. We will see what kind of automotive vision SM has and how good a design team they are soon enough. I know we all wish them much success.

I am thinking now that the first versions of a hybrid V12 have got to be the worst to invest in (or get stuck with). Not the turbo V8 designs because much of that has been tested and already delivered in many thousands. I think the 458M has much promise because of this. High output/voltage electric motors on the other hand seem to me to be very finicky and not generally repairable. For those of you that are handy, what is the one component in items like your washer, dryer, refrigerator, etc. that can't be repaired and when it fails you have to go with a whole costly replacement? They do not age gracefully.

 

Spot on. We are constantly told that the magic battery that is suppose to last is just around the corner. I wonder what will happen when these hybrids require repairs down the road. Or is everything suppose to be thrown away now and replaced with new?

 

We should not underestimate the challenge Ferrari faces in a turbo application for the 458. It is definitely not state of the art to get a turbo to respond quickly and run up to 9000 RPM with real torque on the high end. Some of the widgets could be very exotic. For example, an electric motor to keep the turbo spooled up needs high voltage to be practical -- installations with 48 V systems have been observed http://www.autonews.com/article/20140803/OEM10/308049992/electric-turbocharger-eliminates-lag-valeo-says

We will see what ferrari comes up with.

 

Who said the turbo engine will run up to 9k rpm? Torque mapping and delivery can be cleverly calibrated and synchronised with gear ratios to deliver an experience that feels like a Ferrari.