Here's a pic of me pulling the engine out of my 612 yesterday!

Jason,

I just wonder, not telling you did, but is it possible to swap the cams, inlet to outlet and outlet to inlet by mistake ?
There are to many issues from the beginning why this engine want run properly. Strange.

Guido

 

Otherwise you would have bent some valves again, and she is at least turning over with no interference.

 

Read the whole thread = WOW.
Fingers crossed.

 

Some one has a timing diagram for 612 ?
On a timing diagram for 512 Tr I see that Intake opens 10 °before TDC and Exhaust closes 10° after TDC.This means, even with swapped cams, cams correct on marks, there will be NO contact between valve and piston.
On that timing diagram I also see that the bubbles on the cams for intake and exhaust, the higgest points, are 124 ° from one other.
On Jasons picture those bubbles looks like much more then 124 ° from one other....therefore a timing diagram could give more info.
Jason, those cams hat only 1 mark for timing or more marks ?

Guido
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Guido- He has a factory workshop manual with all the timing data. A 65 degree V12's valves will look different from a 180 degree V12's valves. The crank throws are different, too, because of the 65 degree vee. Normal V12 Vees are 60 degrees, 120 degrees, and 180 degrees.

 

Well it's kinda simple. You can mark the shafts before removal to make your life easy and not think about it. Or you can look at #1 in compression at TDC and look at what the valves are doing. Then go down your firing order and prove it as you look at relative valve positions as you turn the crank.
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

If the photo of post #431 is showing the present camshaft installation of your engine, then the problem is clear. The cam timing is off (and possibly the cams are switched but I can't confirm from the photo). The exhaust cam should be retarded by (very roughly) 90 camshaft degrees from its current position relative to the intake cam. Note that this comment refers only to the relative positions of the cams and not to their positions relative to the crankshaft; it's possible that there's an issue there as well.
If that photo is not showing the present state of your engine then please disregard.
Best of luck, I've enjoyed your thread.

 

Amen. You should do this for everything. That was how I was taught. Have we put everything else back in the right holes also?

Fingers crossed.
Pete

 

If there is confirmation that cams are turning clockwise, the passenger banc, exhaust cam should come BEFORE intake about 90 °. Tell me if I'm wrong here.
Therefor a timing diagram should confirm it all.
It should be great if there are pictures from both bancs before taking of the cams and after at TDC spark...1e cilinder.

Guido
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Fantastic work, fantastic thread. Yesterday I began to see your works and was to end page by page.
I hope you find the problem, and that very soon this magnificent 612 is to travel on the road for many good adventures and travel.

Continue with the good work and good luck. It will all end well.

 

Jason,

If you are close to the assembly marks car will start and run fine just not optimum. Rear scribe lines difficult to get dead on and even when dead 1 or 2 cam cog holes either way and the lines do not appear to move. Cam timing by degree wheel is that precise. Besides you rebuilt motor and that changes the rear scribe line precision.

 

FBB- He degreed the cams with a wheel. All the scribe lines lined up afterwards.

 

Jason,

Many feel your 1st sentence is true. I agree with second sentence if close to assembly marks car will run. 3rd sentence I get where you are coming from. On chevys you can remove a lifter replace with a solid and then this exercise of cam timing makes sense. I know what you mean about oil in the ferrari lifters. There is a check valve in there to prevent oil from draining. So in theory doing the baloney against the Ferrari lifter should be OK. Ferrari is silent on this issue. I also have never heard a Ferrari tech discuss that issue. Two chevy ways common in the industry is .050" opening method and the lobe centerline method. Assumptions are made in both methods. I have never been able to disprove whether Ferrari lobes are symmetrical and I have never bothered to measure the dwell of max opening at centerline. For a while I set timing to assembly marks then verified cam timing by using lobe centerline. Very often the assembly marks were perfect and I went no further. It was very fast and maybe the dwell at centerline improves the results. Later I spent the time to play with the Ferrari method of cam timing. That's when I found that this method was extremely precise. When adjusting the cam shafts to meet the requirements moving 1-2 holes at the cog yielded no visual movement at the marks! Wow! This means to me that neither set of marks is worth much except as a reference point to not smash valves to pistons. These are very precise motors if you want them to run as Ferrari intended. So the bottom line is you could use nail polish and never remove a cam cover swap a belt and the car will run fine. It will run better if assembly marks or rear marks are carefully aligned. It will run best if cam timed as Ferrari intended.

 

Jason,

Since a Ferrari tech is coming to see you have that discussion with him about the oil in the ferrari lifters and see what he has to say about that.

 

Apologies if this has been asked before, but can you please advise the exact shade of blue the 612 has?

Wonderful project btw!

 

Yes, I would concur with the fundamental point of your post and I would add that lobe separation angles are typically around 110 camshaft degrees (close enough to your description of 90 deg). Regarding direction of rotation, in this case cams turn opposite of crank, but in any case exhaust cam should lead intake by the LSA.

Admittedly photos can be deceiving, but post 431 appears to show LSA approaching 160-180 deg. I suppose I would expect to see LSAs similar to the photo in fatbillybob's post #433.