Is this a bubble?

Switzerland also. I'm not sure about the reasons in Switzerland but for Scandinavia this is based on the fact, that there were so many American car manufacturer factories in Scandinavia in former times.
Therefore it's a typical scandinavia phenomenon and no way comparable with the rest of Europe.
I myself am a bit into american steel, because I grew up near a canadian airforce base and have seen the Chargers, Challengers, GTOs ( Pontiac not Ferrari , etc. every day, owned by 20 years old GIs.

Today there's still a lively American Car club culture near american military bases, like for instance, Ramstein. But it's still strictly locally concentrated.

Where I live we have a lot of pizzerias and italian ice cream parlors. Therefore there are a lot of Ferrari, Alfas and Fiat.

( sorry, Alberto, just kidding

Best Regards from Germany

Martin

 

Best of breed cars are different. They gain legendary status and become bluechip investments. Just like with cars from every other generation, all prices rise with time/inflation. But only the standouts continue to stand out.

Example. My father raved about a few muscle cars he had in the 60's. I haven't ever lusted after them because they were from his generation. My posters had TR's and 288s on them. But, I'd buy something like a Hemi Charger because it was something engrained in me as being a cool car.

 

O.K. Joe. This makes sense. But by no way I would call, for instance, a Porsche 911 S 2,4 'best of breed'. Nevertheless they ask incredible prizes. Pushed by the 2,7 RS ?

Best Regards

Martin

 

Martin,

I agree with you, Martin. A 2.2 S isn't a best of breed... but it's soaring in price because people who liked them as kids can now afford them. A rising tide lifts all boats you know! Buyers want anything they can get, and since most cant afford an RS or RSR, they're buying S's and even E's at silly prices. Of course 911's are also driven by geographic arbitrage (US to GER). I suspect in 10 years they will have deflated, aside from the best of breed cars I mentioned such as the RS, RSR, and some of the Turbos.

 

Prices for good muscle cars have rebounded very nicely. A few world records for rare Corvettes and Mopars recently.

I have sold quite a few of my musclecar collection to folks all over Europe-Finland, Norway, Switzerland, France and Germany to name a few. There are some huge American car fans in Europe, not related to military bases at all that I can see.
I sold a Mopar to one of Europe's top designers(works for one of the biggest names in automobiles)
He told me that many in his design group were big fans of American muscle and owned examples along with their exotic sports cars.

 

An "S" may not be the ultimate 911, but as a former owner of both a 73 RS and 73 S-I can say they drove very similar to one another. All the early S cars are very entertaining to drive and special sportscars, IMO. An early T on the other hand, is a very different drive.

 

I was recently hauling some american muscle across the norwegian wilderness..
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Nice.

BUT you should have been DRIVING IT.

 

yes but kudos for towing anything with an S class

 

Its a simple E-class, but 35 MPG over mountains with that iron lump on the trailer deserves som kudos.

 

Hagerty has just come out with a new market rating measure at 70.22 (0 to 100 scale) which is defined as an expanding market. Link follows:

Hagerty Market Rating

 

So, at the worst of the last ten years, it was just flat? Not too shabby. Much better than my 401K

 

All Vetroresina's in the Market costs now over 200K. This is 100% sure not a bubble. This is the beginning.

 

I'm not sure how the former leads to the latter...

I hope you're right regarding there not being a bubble, but there's nothing convincing about any argument regarding 6-12 months of price trends and what they portend.

I think we won't really know for a couple more years...if you think it's s bubble, sell now. If not, then buy one before you can't anymore...

Ciao!

Hannibal

 

I love it when I hear "This time, it is different"
Heard it in 2000 with the dotcoms
Heard it in 2006 with Spanish real estate
Heard it in 2007 with the Nickel
Heard it in 2008 with the Oil
Prices that double or triple over 18 months, for cars in the same condition? Give me a break.
Come back to earth guys.
In Europe, the buyers are in the market only to invest, and the owners are holding to their cars because the prices are increasing too fast.

 

Posted on Yahoo Autos Yesterday:

This 1979 Ferrari 308 GTB is Pin-Up Perfect
https://autos.yahoo.com/news/1979-ferrari-308-gtb-pin-perfect-170041855.html

 

Hard not to agree with you. Just 18 months ago, there were Vetroresinas that sat on Anamera and Autoscout for 6-12 months priced at €70-85K. Nobody seemed to care. so what really happened? A few investors decided these could be the great next car to have, so they started buying them. Now they are nearly gone, for now. There's absolutely no way to tell what this means long term. Right now all we are doing is trying to predict the future.

Ciao!

Hannibal

 

It doesn't appear to have sold.

May be a tad too soon for 84K

 

all I now is this can go on 400K for cars that were 100K 1.5 years ago. What goes up must come down. Investors are what destroys the classic car market for enthusiasts! JM2C

 

What do you mean?

 

Well I was talking about other Ferraris like a C4 which I want and the best in the world was 99K Now they want 400K. I have a friend who was at the Caviling Classic and said guys were buying cars that they did not even know the model number. Rich guys buy cars as investments but not necessarily enthusiasts that forces real cars guys who may not be the richest out of the market. What happened before is unlike a bottle of wine or painting you have to maintain, drive the cars, etc and they dumped them and the market crashes. I hope that happens again, but not sure Ill live to see it! Glad I have my GT4 would not trade it for the world, but I am thinking about getting another Italian car I can afford! HA

 

Ferraris are made for rich people. Luckely some of us may eat the crumbs of their tables for a short while. The 308 will soon be out of reach for the common enthusiast and the rich will buy back what belongs to them in the first place.

 

Very funny, and certainly some truth to this as well.

 

Agree, though I would be more generous and say it's absolutely true. My strategy is to sell my 308 now and become rich so I can buy it back again later.

 

Personally I think the "buy a 3X8 you can(t) hardly afford for the fun/kick, drive it and as soon as maintenance is due dump it" times are over. The "entry" model has evolved in a full-blood Ferrari that is getting it's deserved appreciation and a much more appropriate value. Of course values between the different models (GTB/S I-Vetro) differ a lot, and steep rises may get some corrections. But car enthousiasts who buy 3x8's for "top dollar" today will be/should be able to have them properly mainained and won't be bothered when prices drop (a bit) on short(er) notice, since they bought them for the ownership, driving and enjoying them for a longer period objective. I can't imagine investors heading for the emergency exit either when the price increase should get out of steam. "True" investors sit on it for a while in such a case. I think, as in the stock market for instance, the "dumb" money runs for it's life when prices no longer rise/start to fall, these are the non-professionals that got sucked in the wrong stocks anyway. Leaves us with the groups of true collectors, which gladly would add a 3X8 to their collection because of the recent appreciation of our "iconic" 308. I don't see this group of owners step out from the most hunted models (carb's/Vetro's) on short(er) time at all !

I think the current price levels are certainly not out of balance, though it is about real, considerably sums of money we are not talking about the "(multi)million dollar/euro" category. Any number between 50K-200K can (in my opinion) be explained, strutted with arguments, I find that a lot (really a lot !!) more difficult when discussing about let's say a 250 GTO/California Spider etc. As much as I love them: thát's what I would call silly money..