Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

Mac had to muddy up the whole EVO fiasco because they knew their car had been bested in other comparo's. The 'unoptimized but 'official as published' time for 918 was still devastating for Mac, they badly needed that win. Didn't happen. There were whispers about what was happening behind closed doors. And then there were denial's by EVO that lap times were measured when they knew full well they had the video and all the data in hand. Months later, they finally released to the public what some of us had already known, albeit in a 'massaged' form. That 0.2 second delta was settled on with Mac feelings in consideration. The official story is that EVO didn't bother to further optimize 918 tire pressures, etc, but still concluded that it had a lot more to give. I heared something very different, and in the end 0.2 seconds was 'enough'. This was all done so the 'do over' could be performed by Mac. Porsche was never offered an opportunity to be there 2nd time around. Silly billy. So the delay worked. To Mac cultists it was enough for them to smile about, they could once again feel good about the world and show their faces among peers with pride. They could shout to the world that 918 barely beat P1 when it runs on 'inferior' Corsa tires, but when P1 ran on 'equivalent' tires it annihilated 918. the idea that Cup2 is equal to Trofeo R is utterly stupid beyond stupid, yet countless pages were wasted here 'debating' that. Porsche is busy prepping release of 991 GT3 RS, but they will be revisiting the 918. The story is far from finished.

 

just watched it, Car of the Year 2014. CH has changed his opinion, although mildly. Weight and electronics again. In the end CH chose the F12 over the 918, and his cohort chose the GT3. Was not a great showing for the 918.

I did see on the drag test they did on the main straight, 918 got a huge jump, but looked like the F12 was catching up at the end.

 

It is unfortunate that we get down to discussing tires when we have 3 great hypercars, each with strengths and weaknesses.

The tire situation is a red herring - Ferrari did not see any problem with the Corsa tires for its hypercar, only Mclaren is complaining. Ferrari had the MPSC2 tires for the 458 Speciale and therefore knew these tires very well, and chose the Pirellis for LaFerrari anyway. I can't imagine that they would choose inferior tires for its most expensive, halo model.

The real problem is that Ron Dennis was so arrogant in claiming that the P1 would beat any car on any track, without having actually seen the competition in action. That would be like the manager of your favourite sports team claiming that his team would beat any opponent any time, anywhere - before the season even started and not knowing the competition!

Now, instead of celebrating the positives of the P1 (of which there are many), there is an inclination by Mclaren to change the conversation to tires as to why the car is not head and shoulders faster than the two other hyper cars. The P1 is a fantastic car that should be celebrated along with the two other hyper cars for moving technology forward.

 

It would be a great pleasure to see that. Although, what matters to us the most - it was faster than P1 and 918, it was a customer's LaFerrari anyway and taken in far from optimal conditions to the track, so Ferrari could be reluctant to allow that time to surface as LaFerrari time at Anglesey.
They would rather aim for even better "official" time(easily done) to set a benchmark for that track, if they cared.
IMO, no times and video will be posted outside the media publications. This is how the media business works. So need to wait for the next occasion. In this case I'd like to be wrong.

 

But was that laptime done for Ferrari or for/by that particular customer? If so, then why is he waiting to share it?

 

Eh

Harris's, never going to change his opinion on the 918 much. He'll alter it somewhat, so not to look like a complete bafoon.

Nonetheless, he had already dug his/that grave a long time ago. He can't get out.

Even now, he clings on to the same bias, though many other credible presenters don't see what he sees. It's almost like he can't let certain things go (or they're just in his mind) that he continually punishes the 918 with. It is what it is.

It's all good. To each his own.

 

Off the line the 918 is in another league with all the 4-wheel traction and technology, plus electric torque of course.
But it is interesting how the F12 could be catching up after that. With 'only' 730 hp (but available all the time). So engine? Aero?

 

Customer's car, slightly cold weather conditions and used (tracked) tyres , Evo driver did the run, if I recall correctly. - nothing affiliated with official Ferrari.

 

Thanks.

 

Thanks.

 

I think he was doing a bit of penance for his P1 worship earlier last year. Perhaps he was even sticking it to McLaren in a roundabout way.

The Trofeo R is the tire that McLaren used to "beat" the 918 at Anglesey. Chris knew this very well. His Portugal special wasn't going to allow him the opportunity to directly compare the P1 and the 918, but it would allow him to indirectly resolve the perpetual tire debate.

Since Porsche has yet to develop a track oriented tire for the 918--for that is unfortunately the only way for Porsche to officially get back on top at this point--the next best thing for Harris was a GT3. So he put McLaren's winning tire on a Porsche product and gained two seconds on a two minute track with a car making half the horsepower. It doesn't take a genius to figure out what that same tire would yield on a 918 at Anglesey.

End of tire debate.

Thank you Chris Harris.

 

I think he was very fair with his review of the 918 and said so himself that Porsche have improved the car further since he last tested it. He seemed to be genuinely surprised by what the car was capable of doing. It was almost like his finely tuned race-driver senses were telling him one thing and the data and times another thing. He seemed to be flummoxed by the 918. He criticized the weight and that he could feel it, something that MarkNC, one of the very few unbiased people commenting on this thread has said multiple times as a result of his test drive.
Like you said in the end, to each his own, can we not just be enthusiasts and love all three amazing machines??

 

Thanks.

 

Chris? is that you?

 

I wish I could drift as good as he could.

 

Keep in mind regarding weight and handling: Jethro Bovington, who drove both cars, said that the 918 was better balanced, more exciting, and more of a precision instrument than the P1. This has been echoed by other reviewers as well.

Randy Pobst, called it a "beaut" to handle, and turned off all the electronics. Of course, we won't know Pobst feelings on the P1, cause McLaren refused to send one when they asked. So the weight thing, really seems overblown in many respects.

WT DOOM (who I think has driven both cars, maybe all three), mentioned what many people confuse as the 918's weight, is actually the heavier steering, less boosted feeling due to the 4WD element. That makes perfect sense, as the 918 actually has the lowest COG of all three cars, and reportedly very little rolling resistance. However, 4WD, can make a car feel tighter; it's steering heavier; thus possibly making the prejudiced feel it's the 918's weight.

Yes, the 918 is a heavier car. But Porsche, designed it from the ground up to compensate for this (battery, heavier parts packaging/COG, 4WD, 4WS, etc.). And neither the P1, nor LaFe are as light as so many here though initially anyway. So the discrepancy's, really not as big (real or imagined).

I mention all this to note: Though it appears, Harris has tried to back track somewhat, he still has his bias that he won't let go. This is despite the fact, that others who didn't start of with his predetermined bias, don't see some of the things he does; thus routinely penalizing it, or certain elements as Harris.

He just saw things the wrong way initially, and made almost a complete fool of himself IMHO.

 

There is no need for multiple starts.

Say you and I are comparably skilled drivers, and we can agreed that the 918 and the P1 are quite evenly matched and the performance difference is not much.

We do a 3 lap race at Yas Marina F1 circuit. I in my 918 and you in the P1.

When the flag drops I will be be gone, even if I let you have the pole position spot. You will be playing catch up for the next 3 laps. About the only place you can have a chance to pass would be the back straight after corner 7. But that's the hairpin and slowest corner on the circuit. At exit the P1 will be struggling to put the power down while the 918 will just disappear into the distance. The back straight is 1.3km long, 0.8 mile, which is about the distance needed for the P1 to catch the 918 in the Autocar mile straight drag race. If I am like other racing drivers, even if you can catch up, that doesn't mean I won't take defensive action to block or take the inside line, it will be really hard for you to pass.

Corners 8 and 9 are low speed, so on the exit of 9 the 918 will again jump to a good distance for the P1 to catch up and try to pass on the next little curved straight. Pretty much the same story for every corners there, the 918 has so much more traction out of corners compared with the P1 it's close to impossible for it to stay with the 918. The top end advantage of the P1 is for it to catch up right around braking zone.

Then there is the brake issue. P1 might ran out of braking capacity before the 918. 100% of the braking comes from the physical brakes, while a big chunk of the braking capacity is regen on the 918, the brakes will definitely last longer in the Porsche.

My guess is that 8 times out of 10, the 918 will finish 1st. The P1 'might' post a faster lap time by itself but it doesn't mean much in racing. The 2nd placed car routinely post a faster lap time than the 1st place car yet would still be stuck behind it lap after lap in F1.

 

Hard to believe 918 has lower COG than LaF considering that big battery. Just looking at the 2 cars side by side, the LaF sits its passengers so low. Is there data to back up this claim?

 

It was hard to believe the 918 has the CG below the wheels' centreline too from looking at the side view cutaway.

But then again most of that battery sits below the centreline, the part above the line was a tapered section, the smallest part of the battery.

LaFerrari on the other hand has a much smaller battery, not enough to offset the much bigger mass of the big engine which sits mostly above the wheels' centreline.

 

Makes sense. I haven't seen how the 918 battery is shaped and where it is located. So it's below the floor and flat like with LaF? I saw schematics of the P1 battery and it sits rather high doesn't it?

 

Ferrari's goal wasn't to offset weight by adding some more weight below.
More weight always means more inertia, and it is not good for handling and steering responsiveness. If the only thing was the CoG, Porsche would have given the 918 a floor made of lead.

 

Yas marina circuit is a big advantage to the p1. I tried both cars side by side and the p1 catches the 918 really quickly with the 918 getting a jump start.

 

Erm. Since you brought up WEIGHT, can you tell us what the LaFerrari weighs please?

And no, we're not looking for what they told us 2+ years ago in press materials. We're talking it's real weight now.

Thank you.

 

Ben (Treynor) said in post #5077 on the LaF Picture thread that he would disclose the full weight soon: "I have weighed our car. I'm happy to report it's under 1600kg, even with the lift kit and audio/navigation options I'll post actual weight along with some performance figures when I measure them, so that people don't focus on a single metric."

 

Okay. Thanks.

Of course, another reportedly very reliable member on a rival exotic enthusiastic site, claims the LaFe weights more than we were lead to believe (and what you just stated).

I'm not saying the guys right, or even holds onto his previous beliefs. Who knows? So we'll see?

Thanks again.