Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

Motor Trend measured a 9.8 sec @ 148.9 mph for the P1 so it is right on the money!

McLaren P1: How I Set The Motor Trend Production-Car Record - Motor Trend

 

I would like to see the 1/4 for the Laferrari. I'm having a really hard time believing it traps 157.

 

I don't think they actually did any instrumented testing. The P1 number was taken from MT quick and dirty test of the Validation Prototype many moons ago. Despite numerous attempts, requests, by MT to perform a proper standardized test of P1, Mac has yet to offer up a car. No publication has done a full instrumented test of LaF.

 

the sensation is quite something else!

 

918 on ebay motors

weird.


very different color choice!


Porsche : Other 918 Spyder | eBay

 

I have seen it before in person. Beautiful color on the car...it does not show very well in pics.

 

Excuse me Mr Glickenhaus, about performances I've a question for you, about the (ultra-amazing) enzo-P4/5 of yours.
I know pininfarira claimed better performances than enzo, thanks less weight and better CxS: 0-100 Kph 3.55s (-0.1s) and 362 Kph (+7 Kph), but do you ever v-box the P4/5?
And what about Handling and more improvments? Gearboxstill the same, or had some upgrades?

 

9.6s @ 252 Kph seems to fast....

 

Well, How could it manage then 0-300 kph in 15sec if it was slower than that in a quarter mile?
It leaves about 5 sec to get from 250 to 300 so if it wasn't that fast up to that point, it wouldnt get so fast to 300 also.

LaFerrari has been expected to be fastest of the 3 so it looks quite all right to my eyes. The difference in trap speed, from P1, though significant, just makes me happy how beautiful Ferrari V12's power delivery is in the top range revs.

 

The article is a rehashed version of car magazines p1 vs laf the trap speed for the laf is an estimate. There has been no instrumented test of the laf so far.

 

Ahem, can you give us one instrumented test of the LaFe, to bolster your claims of "LaFerrari has been expected to the the fastest of the three, so it looks quite all right to my eyes".

Not sure people were counting on it being the fastest (Ferrari collectors want Ferrari's regardless). That's not necessarily why people by them. Nonetheless, to my knowledge, all we've heard regarding the LaFe is mostly speculation, but no hard numbers or instrumented testing.

 

I would expect laf to be fastest in a straight line. A little more power and lightest of the 3 (but not by much). All depends on how it puts the power down.

 

It doesn't matter if LaFerrari is the fastest or not, most of their buyers don't care and the car will be a garage queen for them.

That leaves the 918 and the P1 for the 'drivers', owners who really drives their cars. That makes the debate between the P1 and the 918 the most heated with the P1 side trying desperately to prove their car is actually faster than the 918. McLaren itself is not doing their fans any favour by withholding the times of their car, and sidestepping normal testing procedures or simply decline to participate in head to head testings for fear of losing publicly.

But it doesn't matter in the end, the P1 owners all loved their cars and that's the bottom line.

 

Plenty of Laferrari's being driven properly by owners on here and elsewhere so it is absolutely relevant to the debate. There's just a lack of data on it at the moment so there's not as much to discuss.

The problem with the 918 P1 debate is that one car or the other always has a tyre advantage because Trofeo> MSPC2> PZCS. Until an independent race team sets up both cars on the same tyre we won't have a fair comparison. What we have learned so far is that Mclaren's claims that the P1 would be in a different league to the 918 and offer GT3 levels of performance is bogus. However that doesn't stop it being a great car.

 

I am not sure that the MSPC2 are better than the Corsa. That is only what Mclaren apologists are saying - I don't hear that from anyone else. Why would Ferrari spec them for Laferrari if they were inferior, even though they spec'd the supposedly better MSPC2 for the lower priced 458 Speciale? Doesn't make sense.

In any event, you can never have the same tire for both cars since tire sizes for these cars are very different - 918 has significantly larger tires than P1. You can have the same brand and style tire, but the 918 will always have the grip advantage because the tires are so much bigger.

I believe Mclaren compromised on the tire size to fit into the P1 design, and these tire sizes are more suitable for a 640hp 650s model, not a 900hp P1 model. So they had to improvise and use a much stickier Trofeo R track tire to compensate for track tests.

 

Don't let the cultists hear you say their P1 is a compromise, they believe everything on it is by design and is the greatest.

They will tear you into pieces.

 

Yeah I agree. 157mph is MOVING it makes sense it is fake. I trap 153 and I have no thought I will run away from a Laferrari.

 

Playing with excel and with declared datas .... not so much

Luque
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Nice!

 

This is assuming linear acceleration? If so your logic is flawed.

 

The method of least squares to calculate distance is based on linear acceration between two points and of course this is an approximation.
More points (speed vs time) you have, more the calculation is precise
Just used excel several time to check BS from magazine .....
See AMuS 997 GT2 test .... quarter mile in 11,3@197 Km/h

Luque
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The only data I care is about what the car actually does not guesses.

 

The tread pattern on the MPSC2 looks to be more aggressive than the PZCS but would be interesting to see what the gap actually is in the real world, if any.

The question of why the P1 has such relatively narrow tyres is a really interesting one. Given that the performance of the P1 was always going to be tyre limited and that it's raison d'etre was to perform on track why not fit it with wider tyres? I suspect like you that some sort of design constraint had to be put on. Interestingly the P1 GTR has smaller tyres than the 650s GT3 which might explain why it is slower on track despite having a massive power advantage and seemingly similar aero.

 

this whole tire 'debate' is simply smoke screen BS from Mac crowd. Both cars were developed from ground up with those specific shoes. Since when is tread pattern really indicative of outright grip? I can show you cheap buttery tires that have near 'slick' appearance. Cool looking but worthless performance. Mac crowd just needs to deal with it. P1 is based on an existing chassis, there's only so much you can do with wheel/tire combo's before you reach negative returns. 918 gives P1 fits simply because it has so much more mechanical grip. Tall and wide tires, plus a ridiculously low CoG, and plenty of aero when speed increases. That's going to win out nearly 100% of the time in real world and on most tracks vs a machine that relies so much on a stiff setup and aero grip. When push comes to shove on a track, it's the P1 that 'pushes' ...understeers, and not the AWD 'pig'. As EVO found out, 'race car' level of downforce in P1 still couldn't make up for lack of mechanical grip vs 918 inherent balance and grip = P1 shaded by 918 on road and track. In the end though, owners love their cars, which is what matters. Yet Mac doesn't want that feeling to dissipate by allowing head to head comparo's or any kind of test that 'would not be representative' of true capability (their words). BS.

 

Actually, the 918 generates 147kg of downforce on the rear axle at 300km/hr in Sports mode with the wing up at 8 degree, i.e. top speed low drag speed mode.

In Race and Hot Lap mode, the rear wing has a higher attack angle, and the down force maxed out at 205kg on the rear axle with the wing fixed at 14 degree. Additionally, the under body vents on the front axle opens and generates 39% more downforce but Walliser didn't specify how much it generates.

He did say in performance mode, i.e. Race/Hot Lap, the car can generate up to 2G of cornering force, I imagine it would be at big radius high speed corners, not the normal skip pads of magazine testings.

Oh, and the 918 can stop from 300km/hr to rest in 247.2m, not bad for a 'pig'.