488 GTB (458 replacement)

I am not sure what are your parameters to say AMG makes better/best turbo-charged engines. Are they insanely fuel efficient, high-reving, insane HP per-liter...?

In terms of sound, AMG`s sound like American muscle cars, which I wouldnt like to hear from Ferrari: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60fMaE5KVeM

 

Acura NSX can do it for $150K, so surely Ferrari can do it for $300-350K.

 

I blame Obama.

 

You're right, I don't know why is it. Just like I have no proof of what makes a Ferrari turbo engine better/best. There is no best/better unless you agree to some method of measuring. Porsche Turbo cars are amazing, as are McLaren and many others. Ferraris is great to I'm sure. Is it anything special? Based on what I've read so far, there is nothing to indicate that.

Whether you life the sound of an AMG or not, there's no denying that the California T exhaust is nothing noteworthy. As of right now, Ferrari's turbo efforts are nothing out of the ordinary.

 

Lol

 

I am quite sure when the first road tests reveal an astonishing performance, many of the people worried about the turbo will order a car. The sound though, will not ever be like the last NA engine. It cannot be. It will be loud, but will play a different tune. As the 458 is already an outstanding machine, I am sure, a bit like the 993 in the porker world did, it will become a bit of an icon and be sought after dearly in years to come. As I love a V12, I am still enjoying the sound of the incredible F12. It is automotive Nirvana, and maybe more 458 owners should try one if the turbo V8 turns you off.
As for the Cali T, well it does not seem to be super popular, you can get one easily with little waiting, maybe unrelated to engine, more a reflection of the car being so similar maybe .
In any case, fashion can change rapidly, and Ferrari will be aware of that, and will be watching the 488 sales with more than a keen eye. What do females think of the 488 ?

 

With the introduction 458 Speciale, the V8 Naturally Aspirated engine has peaked performance. Direct Injection with 14:1 compression pistons running on pump gas.... IT DOESN'T get any better than this. IT CAN'T. Yes, you can go with a bigger displacement engine making slightly more power, but you are also adding more weight and adding weight vertically, which effects the balance of the car during cornering. The 458 Engine is big enough.

Another member referred to this as a period of "diminishing performance." Ferrari knows this, so they are changing the game plan. They are setting us up for a new Era.

Ferrari has always wanted to produce a car that weighed 1000 kgs (2200 lbs) because they feel that is the "magic number." That's what the "Mille Chili" (1000kgs in Italian) project was all about. There is a division dedicated to researching new space-age materials/engineering aimed at helping Ferrari build cars that are gradually closer to Mille Chili.

http://europe.autonews.com/article/20130506/ANE/130439999/the-making-of-laferrari

"Ferrari knew that whatever replaced the Enzo had to be lighter. The first step toward this goal was a research model unveiled in 2007 called the Millechili (Italian for 1000kg). Ferrari developed the car to test ways to shave 265kg from the 1365kg Enzo.

To do this, Ferrari decided it had to:

• Make LaFerrari about 900mm shorter than the Enzo's 4702mm and

• Downsize the engine to a 3.0-liter twin-turbo, gasoline direct injection V-8 with 550hp from the Enzo's massive 6.0-liter V-12 engine."


The ONLY way to reach Mille Chili is through smaller engines powered by turbo chargers for significant weight reduction, while maintaining power. They put a 3.9 L in the 488. They were going to put a 3.0 L in LaFerrari!

Today's Ferrari's make great power and great sound, but they are still porkers at 3,000 lbs+. Ferrari wants to take us in a new direction and the first step towards that goal is to get us used to the idea of a Turbo'd Ferrari. The advances in performance will be more focused on significant weight reduction and aerodynamic efficiency.

 

We all regret the passing of great sounding engines.But all the manufacturers are going turbo besides Lambo and I doubt they will stick to
NA much longer hell the Huracan is already being discounted and the upcoming NSX will match its performance for close to half price

 

Europe is a very different place though geographically. US has a lot more space and the cars per capita in the US is probably at least 50% greater in the US than Europe.

Outside of a few major cities in the US, space is plentiful. Wealthy people have room for a slew of cars and when you have a slew of cars, you obviously can't drive them all. If you have 4 cars at your disposal at any given time, just how much can you really drive them all? Say you do 10K miles per year of driving. That's 2.5K/car. Then factor in weather and the lack of versatility of an exotic and you end up with not a lot of usage.

Europeans can also actually get some place interesting in a reasonable amount of time. A day of driving in Europe can take you from one great place to another vastly different place. A day of driving in the US can barely get you anywhere of interest.

There are plenty of factors, but in the end, this create a market of old cars with low miles which in turn stigmatizes "high mile" cars and causes depreciation. This is changing somewhat as they become more and more reliable, but it's still a problem.

In the end, I just buy used and say **** it. Let someone else get raped on the first 5K miles.

 

Probably the majority of people.

 

I'm sorry but couldn't disagree more. Its no coincidence that its the same engine in the Cali-T and the 488. They didn't plan on being spun off either. The next 10+ years will be the same as any other TT philosophy. Software upgrades == more HP and more $$ for very little cost and huge profit. If they wanted to produce a very light performance car they would have released it already. They might "like" to but keeping the doors open as a stand-alone entity with a large debt burden and shareholder return comes first.

 

What modern cars have you seen that needed turbos rebuilt at 75k miles? What caused the failure? Was the engine damaged as a result?

 

Fools. They deserve what they get then.

 

I think a lot of claims like this throughout this thread are based on old experiences. I have full faith in current technology re: reliability.

 

Your disagreement already makes no sense because you already agreed Ferrari is heading in the Turbo'd Ferrari direction. My point is Ferrari is gradually moving towards Mille Chili. I didn't say they were capabale of Mille Chili right now. The newer generations will be one step closer to that goal. You'd think they'd release a 2200 lbs Ferrari with 550 hp tomorrow? If they did, they wouldn't be able to top themselves. They'll give you a taste of it... that's about it.

 

Oils Seals, Shaft play. A turbo is a wear and tear item. They won't "fail" at the 75k mark on the spot. Depends on how you drive. That was a number I threw out in case people thought turbos were going to fail on them at 15k mi or something. However, around that mileage people like to take them out to rebuild them to ensure they spool and seal like new. Unless the turbo breaks into pieces, engine failure is unlikely.

 

It is 3k lbs dry.

50% more downforce than 458 : O

Almost 700hp.

Honestly, if they make it lighter right now, everyone will die. There will be a CS/scud/spec version in the future.

I don't get how you draw the conclusion that this is some big compromise as a result of the upcoming IPO.

I don't know of any real engine companies that make huge power upgrades solely in software. There is only so much efficiency in a turbo and a motor. This isn't going to stunt development or bore it in my opinion.

 

The article you linked was an older soft publicity piece about the making of their hyper car LaFerrari under Luca and PF (both of which are gone) and all of the trades necessary to get all the goodies in there. The LaF has very little or nothing to do with the mid-cycle version of the 458.

I don't think there is any conspiracy. They said they chose to re-use the Cali-T motor because an NA V8 has too much emissions. I, like many others, think it's sort of a cop out at this time and given where they are at now as a business we are more likely to see performance enhancement through boost and software mods instead of carbon fiber tubs in production cars. It certainly works for Porsche (Turbo vs. Turbo-S) and the massive aftermarket upgrades for the Nissan GTR.

 

I'm no so impressed by downforce numbers. I think it's funny when manufacturers claim huge downforce increases. Downforce on road cars is nothing but a case of function following form and holding back on stuff so you can have something to look forward to later. It's not exactly some new science with cutting edge technology. Every company in the world knows how to make a lot of downforce. It's mind boggling that it's taken until rather recently to get significantly active aero on cars. As if no one knew they could put mechanical flaps on cars...

 

I'm mistaken if I say that "I sense a little bitterness in most your posts here" ? just asking

 

Nah, I'm just disappointed in the design. I takes the better half of a decade to get new entry-level exotics (the kind I like,) so when one comes out and it looks really similar to the old one, I've pretty disappointed. It's not really even about thinking a car is good looking or not. I'd rather see a car that's new and I don't like, than one thats good looking but which I could have had for 5 years.

I don't really give a **** anymore about the insides. All cars are too fast. Turbo experience isn't new to me, nor is that interior. To me this is just a turbo 458, which I didn't really want/need. Could have had a reliable 800hp turbo 458 years ago from UGR.

It's a good looking car, don't get me wrong, but it makes me ask the question, "If you never got a 458, why would you want a 488?"

 

Love it!

I´m excited how the engine will run!

Have had the F430 and and the Scud and went just back to a F430 Spider
and for the love of turbo punch i got a 991 turbo S
but i think a Challenge Stradale/Scuderia/Speciale successor named 488 GTO
i will be in.

 

Which is better than your 1950's instruments... Ferraris are supposed to be modern and technologically advanced.

 

Should they be so just for the sake of it, though?

 

They are not like that just for the sake of it. An MFD provides a plethora of information (from speed, to GPS, to tyre temps and so forth) with the minimum possible clattering. Also it is fully customisable and lighter than the traditional gauges. It's the future.