Am I the only one who thinks that 488 has better styling than 458? I am sure that all the new photos and videos will prove my opinion
Oh yeah China. The same China where Ferrari shut down two franchises because they weren't selling... China where a Lambo dealership in Beijing didn't sell a single new car for a whole year. Tell me again about how China is "everything".
Yeah because the production cost of a Japanese car with generic interior and equipment as part of a huge production facility and corporation is comparable to a relatively small and mostly independent Italian marque.
This is not including Hong Kong or Taiwan right? (they always seem different to China imo, via UK pre 1997 etc) They sell pretty well in those countries/regions .
Ok, so which modern engines and turbos have you seen people tearing open turbos with no issues at 75k to rebuild them? IHI turbos? VF? Mitsu? What kind of turbos - variable vane, "normal", twin-scroll, Water cooled? Oil cooled? Both? What did they find? Your experience is in direct contradiction to what I've seen in the Volvo, Audi, Subaru, and BMW OE/tuning community since the late 90s or so. Many tuned cars running well over 100k with zero turbo issues - you see this in particular with used German and Japanese cars. In fact, in all of my experience, I can site many other points of failure that will occur prior to turbo failure on a modern car - o2 sensors, CV joints, wheel bearings, valve cover leaks, exhaust failures, MAF failures, MAP failures, vacuum leaks, systems failures, etc. Typically, the only time you see anyone touch their turbos is for upgrades; not for maintenance. In many engines, removing the turbo(s) is a bit of a task. People aren't proactively doing this today and it is also fairly easy to tell if there is something wrong with a turbo from a drivability perspective. The ECU will also tell you if the turbo cannot meet the requested boost of the ECU, over-boosting, wastegate malfunctioning, etc. But if people are really concerned, it looks like these will be quite easy to inspect relative to other designs. No manufacturer in the world has a turbo as a wear item on their service of a modern, high-performance car engine. If what you were saying were true, then everyone would because they would have to protect themselves against catastrophic turbo failure eating the engine. Also, no one would buy turbo motors. Likewise, all of the turbos on all the Merc and BMWs engines would be failing non-stop since there are many with high mileage and turbos. This isn't happening and the premium manufacturers are adding more turbo motors across the board. If the shaft gets lose, the turbo will make contact with the housing and rip apart and end up in the engine if you are unlucky. Or, it will make a horrible racket since the impellers should never make contact with the housing - if you are lucky. The only turbos I've *personally* seen fail prematurely are ones which were run well outside their efficiency range via overly aggressive software. The vacuum plumbing and additional oil and cooling lines are additional points of failure; but can be reliable if executed properly. In my experience, you will end up replacing all the vacuum lines before the turbos themselves fail. Do turbos fail? Of course they do - just like any mechanical component, they have a limited lifetime. Is it something that should be a decision point for buyers of the 488? Absolutely not in my opinion unless Ferrari fails to build a reliable design.
I agree, but I always like to give the opportunity for others to educate me or enlighten me. In this case though, I (and many friends) have a decent amount of experience with modern turbo motors and they are not nearly as fragile as this might suggest. I've never heard anyone except a long-haul trucker call a turbo a wear item. They are doing 100k miles a year I do hate finding boost leaks though - really annoying. Hopefully Ferrari will make a very serviceable system and a robust one not prone to failures. The layout in my scud is very straight forward, so hopefully they will keep it as simple as possible with all the new hardware and plumbing. FYI to all - Volvo trucks have warranties on their engines/turbos for 300k+ miles. Same basic principle. In some cases, the truck turbos will be working much harder and in far worse conditions. Really depends on the application; but most turbos in the world are made by a handful of manufacturers.
Ok, now for a cool question I hope. Does anyone know if the 488 system will run any form of anti-lag? BMW has just implemented this on their S55 I6 twin turbo. Sounds almost farty on shifts, but keeps the turbos spooled and the response instant. For the interested: Antilag system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Downside has always been the wear to the exhaust since this causes minor combustion in the exhaust between shifts. The BMW's aren't yet old enough to see how reliable the first application (to my knowledge) of this tech is in a street car. Anyone know if Ferrari will tackle this?
Did you saw new 3cyl TT BMW engine? For so small turbocharged engine it pulls very nicely without noticeable lag and sound is quite decent: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-T6AjuSqbtQ#t=49
I haven't because we don't have them here in the US just yet as an independent motor. I did follow their development (3 cyl turbos - including diesel) which has been fairly long from a number of manufacturers. They seem like great motors. I've driven their new 2L BMW turbo in the 328 and it is an amazing motor - also hard to tell that it is turbocharged. It sounds good also. I just jumped in the loaner and then had to check the badge when I got out after the drive because I could not tell if it was a 4 cylinder, 6 cyl, or if it had a turbo! Pretty good testament.
I am sure the technology is reliable but can't see it being more reliable than a NA engine. You are running a fan at extreme high temperature, speed and pressure. I seen turbo failures in machines. The turbo wears out the bearings and losses balance, blade hits something and breaks into pieces.
I'm sure they have tested it for longevity and it will easily last through the car's CPO warranty. Beyond that who knows.
I had a Volvo turbo wagon, often loaded with kids and all their stuff. That car had serious turbo lag. It took some abuse and went like the proverbial "bat out of hell." Sold it at 240k , never had a turbo problem. My only question about turbos is : where the hell have they been all these past years!?
I don't know whether Ferrari has, or hasn't, included any anti-lag systems. I noted however in the 488's description a "throttle response" of 0.2s which in my opinion makes it a fairly acceptable lag... What has surprised me is that we've been fuelled by BMW's ads about their turbos being located within the V of the engine to ensure quick turbo response. Every press comment I have read about this system has praised BMW for reducing to almost zero the T-lag. So my stupid question is : how come Ferrari has not retained this principle on the 488 ? Any clue someone ?
Zonda 760RS is mental car in every way. On the end of the day, we must be honest and say its not quite Italian, since engine is from Germany, and exhaust from Switzerland
Possibly no place since the engine is smaller than BMW's. Also, since it is a midengined car, getting rid of the excess heat might be a problem if the turbos are inside the V. And finally, cosmetic issue with the engine being on display under the glass.
The cali T already had a very bad turbo lag. I would assume the same for 488. I dont have any hopes for sound or driving pleasure (not driving quality, which was fairly decent). The design is epic though
That's nonsense and completely made up. Didn't sell a new car? Would love to know what year that was...
I wonder why Hamilton bought this old primitive Zonda when he could buy one this "great" sounding turbocharged cars like Huayra or P1 http://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.teamspeed.com-vbulletin/960x640/80-10603765_823619077719422_227677784854032789_n_81774ef47bbb9e45eae7afc2389396096f95d143.jpg https://scontent-a-mia.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/v/t1.0-9/10945500_823654121049251_9065388207270525844_n.jpg?oh=e80eae8b8ca563072253af114b51c90f&oe=556D479C
In what ways in the NSX generic? Huge production facility is irrelevant because they both have the space to produce the cars. It's not like Ferrari has to build a brand new factory.
Because H is ugly and Z is one of the best modern exotic designs. Don't think it has much to do with sound. Zondas seem to receive near universal praise while the Huayra has plenty of people who think it's just ugly and the interior gaudy.
