Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

Depends which way you like your sushi?

 

It actually doesn't matter which ever way. McLaren already lost. Remember back when the specs first came out and the pipe dream Ron Dennis said? The P1 will easily be the fastest? And the knock on the 'pig' that it will easily be left behind? The cultists always said the P1 and the 918 area not even close.

Just having around the same lap times already means a fail by McLaren. If P1 doesn't have a lead of 3-4 seconds on the 918 for each course they run on, it's a automatic win for the 918.

It's just like the point spread in football.

 

Good point. It almost negates the P1's win if it's on better tires and only has a small lead. Once they put the 918 on better tires, it would probably be the same time or it might actually be better.

 

If that helps, at least we know who the bad losers are

Btw, maybe a new contender?

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/01/19/mercedes-amg-hybrid-hypercar-report/

 

I love all three but out of them, the one that captures my interest the most is the LaFerrari. Why, well, first its a Ferrari and we love Ferrari here. Second I think its the most robust drivetrain- meaning always power. Third, I think you don't have to fiddle with too much, you just drive. I feel like with the McLaren you have to engage race mode to get at the essence of the car and they don't want you to do that on the public road. I know all of these are silly to use on a public road, but I would like to have that ability. Maybe I'm just being silly on that one. After the LaFerrari, its the 918 for me because I think I could actually use it more frequently. I think Porsche has made a bigger engineering triumph than McLaren and that inspires me more. Thats just my take.

 

I believe the F1 has better straight line aero (ie lower coefficient of drag and lower frontal area) but less downforce (even with its early active aero setup). F40, I believe, has greater downforce but more drag. This would improve its on-track handling characteristics.

I also believe that (for example) a Porsche has lower Cd than most Ferraris, but lacks downforce (actually generates substantial lift above a certain speed). Now, of course all 911s (other than some with larger fixed spoilers, or wings) have active aero at the rear through the raisable spoiler to help reduce lift. Saying one aero is "better" than the other makes no sense, really... An F1 car setup for downforce substantially sacrifices top end speed... doesn't make its aero any worse than a modern econobox with Cd of 0.26...

In fact, I think the F1 (street version, without the massive wing) wasn't particularly fast around the track, at least relative to the F40, and certainly not when you look at the power advantage vs. F40... and even despite the central seating position. This was likely due to insufficient downforce. The F40 would likely beat the road F1 on many tracks...

 

Interesting!

 

Actually, you can go back a couple pages to find the downforce figures for the 918.

As for the Cd, the 918 starts at 0.35 with the wing down, 0.40 with the wing up in speed mode and 0.42 with the wing at max in performance mode.

 

yes, I completely agree. I was just trying my best to be a bit flippant with my post tires, schmires. there is no debate really. P1 not annihilating the 'fat pig' in any and every performance metric = loss in any head to head. It was even supposed to be close remember?

 

Yep.

 

yep. 'to the bone' cultists have completely buried this fact! two years ago, there was a very small group that said 'don't underestimate Porsche'. We said there's no way it will 'only' have 775hp, and it will be 'slow'. No way. But the new commandments had been written by Mac, it WILL be top dog, by far. And now here we are today, a slightly different reality. fun times.

 

I've said it before, but I'll say it again. These cars were designed with their own performance envelope in mind based on whatever tech/engineering is available to them. Each team built the machines thinking their combination of rubber, carbon, alloys, will achieve desired targets. They spent thousands of km's testing, optimizing. The final product is supposed to be the 'engineering achievement'. Tires are part of every car's inherent capability and its compromises (low rolling resistance in 918 rubber, for instance). Each company felt that they built the best all around machine with what they had available. It's fine to have race/track tires available for owners that may want more out on track. But DON'T say those tires are part of the car as designed and delivered for the road.

Now, AFTER, the finished products are judged against each other, the losing side goes "oops, we forgot, we have these 'option' tires available" "we underestimated the competition, we thought we would kill them with our stock package, but it's good thing we have Trofeo's available huh".

It is very clear to see. Mac gambled on a design that leans heavily on stiff damping and massive aero. The competition settled on an approach with much more mechanical grip. AT NO POINT did Mac boast 'we have built the best car in the world' then go on to say, 'except our tires suck'. They were more than confident with what they had, up until the competition smacked them in the face. No more tire excuses. No more.

 

just an annocent question !

how many here drove the P1 back to back with others ?

776 pages I'm sure many did ? Or all this talks based on mags and no actual test drives ?

Non of the 3 cars in anyway drives,feels or reacts the same, and that's the beauty of it, I own a P1 and I've said it many times it's a game changer when it comes to being a pure driver car I just cant imagine any other car can gives you the feelings the P1 delivers way over than anything I drove !

and the 918 which I drove my cousin car many times before I ordered my 918 WP (expecting delivery soon), is it a game changer to me also yes, it's the best Porsche can deliver at the moment with some amazing technology so to me that's alone a game changer.

I don't care if it's slower or faster than my P1 and never thought about it.

The LaFerrari the less car I can talk about as I didn't have much time to fully test it. hopefully more soon.

it's the most responsive of the 3 and not sure my short drives can say it but I felt it's the most comfortable, I also miss the V12 on the back it sounded great, I said it that I regret giving up my allocation but im also happy the route I took for the next 15 month.

Which car more fun, raw and feels like a race car for the street without a question the P1 it's really as CH said a new thing, but that's my opinion others may disagree.

now with track times Im careless, I see it like watching any formula 1 racing season some cars do better than others on some tracks, days.etc

So i get used to it and that the beauty of competition.

Do I believe the P1 with real tracks like Yas or others F1 tracks will dominate absolutely yes based on what I know, do I care about tires spec not at all we all know you can order any of the two from Mclaren factory !

I drive my cars on streets more than tracks anyway.

I just hope Mclaren post its ring time and we move on, and I'm not sure why they still keeping it a secret to public when it's an astonishing achievement !

Anyway I just took my helmet and getting ready to track my laguna 1:33 ACR and the TA tommrow for some fun both never been magazine favourites but to me they worth every penny and that's why I'm collecting Vipers since 2001.

As always buy what you like not what others prefer.

Mbn

 

Well Posted.

All three of these are road cars. They will never, nor could ever, race in a real race. Real owners buy and drive the one THEY want or in some cases are lucky enough to be able to buy and drive all three of them should they want to. All that matters is finding and buying what you want. There is nothing more wonderful than driving a car you Love with someone you Love on wonderful roads as the rain stops and the sun comes out.

All are amazing accomplishments. That said I still think some of McLaren's statements and PR have been a total disaster but all of us should remember the mistakes we've all made before picking up that first stone.

Porsche has once again under boasted and over delivered. Based on expectations it's Head to Head with P1's on several tests are amazing.

Ferrari remains Ferrari. As always the say: >7 > xxxx LBS> Faster than a speeding bullet, never prove it and the over abundance of buyers who line up don't care.

This tire argument is silly. We work with our supplier to develop tires for our car. Each set has different characteristics. The fastest ones for one or two laps aren't the fastest ones for 9 laps. We have different tires for rain, ambient temp, driving style (Left foot braking) etc., etc. etc... In May we will bring 800 tires to our 24 to cover what ever conditions we encounter. As you point out this has NOTHING to do with tires that drive on the road.

When you're visiting your friends at Geneva do stop by and say Hello.

Cheers
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Any and all of you lucky enough (and/or hard working enough) to own any of these cars, have it pretty good! As a hypercar dreamer, I'm still a ways off from being to afford any of these three, let alone debating the finer points between them other than as an armchair QB. Seeing the appreciation you have for the cars is great, and seeing some of the rivalry is in some ways just as good (and perhaps more interesting). I drive a few comparatively pedestrian sports cars, but still try and remember that 10 years ago I would be drooling over the kinds of cars I drive (and/or can afford to drive now).

Cheers to all of you for sharing the experiences and comparos, but also I agree with Napolis, Mbn and others... that they are all unique and appealing in their own ways, and to different people.

I will also re-iterate one observation... Porsche rarely under-delivers, so I think it is a bit amusing when people speculated the 918 was going to be a pig and a clear #3... They are the only mfr that I can think of that lists 0-60 times on their corporate website that are typically ~0.5secs slower than reality (even if we adjust for the rollout that many car mags use...)

 

That also applies to Ferrari. The 458 has a quoted time of 3.4s and R&T managed 3 dead. Part of that is that European cars quote 0-100 km/h (62 mph), not 0-60 mph! Other than that, Ferrari and Porsche usually overdeliver.

 

Porsche actually quotes 0-60mph, not 0-62mph. They quote depending on what region you view their site from, I believe. Turbo S is quoted at 2.9s 0-60mph.

The rollout vs. no rollout is the bigger determinant IMHO. Ferrari may have recently become more conservative with accel specs... I remember when the F40 original was released and I think every single source had 3.1 as the mfr estimate for 0-60. I think (please correct me if wrong) that in reality, regardless of euro or US spec, the cars were more like 3.6-3.9?

 

Actually the F40 is a 4 seconds to 100 car.

 

Watch this and tell me its not The Fezza omg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaAQW8lVaRM

 

Never realized that Harris quotes the wet weight at 1414kg.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPmYAbafN1U

Nice video of how ugly the LaFerrari really is. They made a mistake deciding to go with "inhouse" styling vs Pininfarina.

 

A shame that none of these 3 will ever race a real race.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOtZiCZmVA4

 

The Ferrari so far back...

 

Hmmm... I would say the 918 is the greatest technical achievement of the 3 but I think the laferrari styling pushes the envelope the most and will be considered the most interesting in a few years... the front of the 918 is a bit bland/generic (this coming from a hugh porsche fan btw) and the P1 is better from some angles but a bit ungainly from others...

 

The 918 would be a technical achievement if it didn't weigh nearly 2 tonnes.