Is this a bubble?

Markets are fickle and things can happen fast and you wind up muttering in the corner how you could have bought one for 60K back in the day. Happened to me with Dinos - still muttering.

I don't know how many 308s are left in the world, but it is not enough. Buyers are driving the market, not sellers. I see cars sell in a few weeks after being listed, if they are in decent condition.

He who hesitates is lost.

 

Are you predicting a decline in values of the 300 SL Gullwing because the generation that got excited about them are now in their 80s?

I'm unconvinced that the "generational" theory explains price cycles. It's convenient, and people repeat it ad nauseum on panels, but fundamentally we've seen big price rises for cars whose owners probably aren't even driving all that much anymore. 550 Spyder? E-Type? Porsche 356? Lamborghini Miura?

IMHO, values are affected by nameplate/provenance, aesthetics, rarity, driving experience and usability. A vintage Porsche 911 is fine in modern traffic; has a huge racing pedigree; looks great to most people, and is fun to drive and something you can use without having a mechanic onboard. Nothing to do with generational preferences.

Does a 308 tick those boxes? I think it does.

 

I was hoping for more empirical evidence than stating a "massive audience" exists for Porsches versus Ferraris "small potential buyer audience". Simply saying it's the case doesn't make it so.

In addition, Hemmings isn't an accurate reflection of market values. I've seen many cars listed with them that, when I enquired, had been sold for many months. Once again, I know of three separate early GTBs that sold for just under $100k in the past few months. Those are confirmed sales and I'd consider them true market over what may or may not be listed for sale VIA typical channels.

 

Yes.
A generationX'er will not have many people to bid against if one comes up for auction in 25 years.

The Lamborghini Miura doesn't count as it is the most beautiful car ever built.

 

I personally believe the "generational" theory does explain many price cycles when it comes to collector cars. However, the standouts you've mentioned will continue to stand out beyond the typical generational demand cycles because they're exemplary examples. Cars like a gullwing, speedster, Miura, etc, will stand the test of time because they go from being merely collectable to fabled.

 

Ok.
I'm wrong. Sorry.

 

+308 on the quantity.

You can read it here over and over again by the nee-Sayers that the production of the 308 were a "massive" 12000 over a decade.

12000 cars, massive production. This always really makes me laugh!
12000 (of which probably 75% is 9000 is left) hand build cars that are, after 40 years after introduction still among the most beautiful designed car so far.
Build by the most known car brand in the world....


The 308 stands out in a digital world. The available numbers will decrease every single year and the amount of people getting bored with all the "non-real digital" stuff is growing by the day.

Surely, there are more cars like that ( old “beetles”, old fiats old whatevers) but look at those prices and compare to the 308. If a fiat Dino sells for a 100K nobody looks up. If a Porsche 356 sell for 200K everybody regards that as normal. But if a 308 is offered for 80K everybody (surprisingly for a long time, including owners) are fighting for their last cent to proof how ridiculous that is.

I find lot of these threads and discussions are fed by the non owners trying their utmost to jump on the train cheap. Sorry guys, you missed it and if you still think these cars should be sold for a lousy 45K than you are probably not the right kind of person to own it anyway.

For me owning a 308 is special, no other and newer Ferrari can beat that feeling. Living in Europe I could probably just swap my dry-sump for a nice 430. Double the performance instantly. But I will not. I fell in love with the 308 as a kid. Nothing can replace that feeling of finally made it into a very proud owner. Probably never.

 

In the TR section they say the same thing and they made just over 7000 of those.

 

I have never been able to understand this; there is no automatic correlation beetween numbers built and value. True, there is USUALLY a premium for small production numbers, but not always. There are quite a numbers of examples proving that a "number for number" comparison does not work:

The E-Type Jaguar holds its value very well, and they made 70.000 + of those.
The smallest production number for the whole 3x8 family is the 208 GTS (NO turbo: 2 litres, 155 hp only V8) : 140 build but it is certainly not the most sought after.
There were 1344 328 GTB build...and 1315 F40; as far as I know, there is a difference in value.

Etc...

 

True: yesterday evening at 21:00 I was, by chance, passing with my brother in the street were the guys were putting away all the "Retromobile" salon, and there was one, just in front of us, on a flat bed, resplendant in red; we looked at it from very close, and it reminded me once again what a fabulous masterpiece it is. Still as modern and as extraordinary as it was almost fifty years ago.
Un-believe-able!

Rgds

 

128K € for a Mondial T Ferrari Mondial 3.4 t cat **VALEO** (PRE F1) INTROVABILE come Auto sportiva/coupé in Sinopoli - Reggio Calabria - RC...

Bubble or not bubble: that is the question....

 

Why are we complaining? I'm happy that the 308 was cheap when I bought it and I hope it stays that way for a long time! I have a thoroughbred Ferrari which I can afford to maintain, insure and even use. Most people will never own one, because 10k+- cars aren't enough to go around.

Well, 10k-1, because mine is not for sale.

 

you`re so right Steven !

last week a Fiat Dino Coupé sold for €50.000 in Paris, at the same auction a Fiat Dino Spider sold for € 120.000

I`ve been saying for over a year now, that in the not too distant future, no 308 will sell below 100.000 -
and we are getting closer to that mark

 

Here she was, all alone, in a street, behind the tram stop...talk about "sleeping beauty".

Rgds
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Fantastic!

 

Thank God the 30-40 something crowd is moving on to something else. Now these car will end up in the hands of people who actually know what they are and they will be preserved as they should be. (Original owner of an 85 GTB QV.)

 

Actually I think it's over restored. Way over restored.

 

Its been amazing to watch as an owner regardless of bubble or not. I would like to think it is not a bubble because these cars are due, just like the 246s before.



PDG

 

+1000 !!

 

I think this is wrong. Like so many in my age group I fell in love with the 308 while watching Magnum P.I. I was 18 when it went off the air in 1988, I'm now 45. People in my age group are still buying our dream cars. And what do you mean, "now these car will end up in the hands of people who actually know what they are and they will be preserved as they should be." Do people in there 20s and 50s like 308s better?

 

My point was that many in that age group saw TS driving around Hawaii and thought that was cool. Then when they were cheap, $20k cars, they bought them because, hey, it was cool, "Look, I own a Ferrari". I appreciate that there are those in all age groups that truly appreciate these cars and would preserve them, but there are those who would also just throw some rust encapsulater over a rust spot, stuff some chicken wire and bondo in the hole and paint it. I've seen it right here on FChat. With prices rising those guys will be gone.

But I still think there is a difference between walking into a Ferrari dealer back in the 70's or 80's and buying a 308 new and picking one up at garage sale prices because you got the bug when you were 10 watching MPI.

Sure, I got the bug probably when I was around 10 or in my teens in the late 50's and 60's. Reading R&R, catching a glimpse of an F1 race or Le Mans on Wide World of Sports. That just seems different to me. We (I) got a sense of what these cars were all about and the history behind them. Tom Selleck wasn't the hero. The names we learned were Ascari, Fangio, Surtees, Ickx, Arnoux, Lauda,...... To me it just seems different today. Back then it was mystical, magical; TV brought of a peek into that world, not just the race, but the life style. Dreaming about owning a Ferrari was dreaming about hoping to be part of that. Today, it's Sunday, turn on the F1 race. It's so ordinary.

On the other hand, perhaps this is just the ranting of a 10 year old boy who's about to turn 68 in a month.

 

And for some of us, the 308 is one of the last tangible link to the Ferrari of Fangio, Surtees, Lauda and Enzo himself.

A little part of me holds out the magic that maybe, just maybe Enzo saw my car going down the assembly line, or leaving for a test drive, or even just parked waiting for shipping to the states.

Can't dream that with a modern Ferrari.

 

actually I have always wanted a grandfather clock

 

But if prices keep going up the cars will "disappear".

I used to wonder why F50s never appeared at Ferrari meets. The reason is, they are mostly in storage as investments. I know of one particular F50 which is in car storage whih the owner has never even seen.

Of course there is still a huge price difference and rarity between these cars and F50 but they are heading in that direction.

The higher the value of a model goes, the less it becomes concerned with age group, driveability, maintainabilty or anything else. Its down to investment potential, as a piece of art.

While bank interest rates stay low the prices rises will continue. Another reason why cars are a very popular investment in the UK is the tax efficiency (less so in other countries) and also the fact is, many of these "invisible" cars are bought with money of "dubious origin". because the owners want to keep the money out of the banks.

The main way in which cars reach this status is down to dealers artificially inflating asking prices in order to push them as investments. There was a spate of this here in the UK last summer and expect to see more of it this summer.

 

Stop - you are making me feel old. Tom Selleck turned 70 last week, that's almost as bad as seeing the Fonz doing reverse mortgage ads ...