Is this a bubble?

This was covered earlier in this thread, but ultimately a car is valued on the basis of its design, provenance/history, driving experience and reliability. I don't think it's a money issue, or a poster issue, other than that more posters were made of 308s, Countachs and Testarossas than of Fairmounts, Stealths and 300 ZXs.

Nothing against Tom Selleck, and definitely nothing against Christie Brinkley, but I didn't buy a 308 because of those screen appearances. When I go to exotic car events now, and I see rows of 360s and F430s, lots of Gallardos, etc., the 308 is still the one that stops me in my tracks.

The generation of cars that ended in 1989 (literally, Ferrari, Porsche and Mercedes all retired iconic cars after that model year, and Lambo finally pulled the plug on the Countach in 1990, IIRC) was materially different than what came in the 1990s. The pre-1970s stuff is classic, but no longer fast enough or safe enough to drive daily. The post-1990 stuff is faster and safer, but less analogue. Airbags or mechanized seat belts (in the US), primitive ABS, computerized engine control, etc.

With the exception of the Merc SL, which was produced in massive quantities, we're seeing prices firm up on the 308, 328, Porsche 930 and of course the Countach which has gone into orbit. I think it's as much to do with that generation being something of a last hurrah for the old school sports car as it is dorm room posters.

I also wonder, having gone from a 328 to a 308. The incremental performance of the 328 isn't going to drive values, IMHO. I think the 308 feels more like a Daytona or 246 inside, with the old school switchgear and gauges, and there's a little more drama to the design. But... it's not night and day. If a blu sera 328 GTS had come along during my hunt, I wouldn't have been able to resist.

Maybe, but the 328 is the same tubular frame design and largely hand finished. For me, the 348 was the cutover - different car in so many ways. The 328 was almost quaint in 1986, because it was a pretty ancient design lightly modernized. It's also funny to see contemporary road tests where it went up against the even more ancient 911 and Esprit. Call it the battle of the codgers...

I miss my 993. I doubt 328s will ever sell for less than they do now, but I'd say my '85 QV feels very much the same as my '87 328 did. Not much seat of the pants difference, although the QV is still very new to me so I need more time behind the wheel.

Also, as you well know, ANY open 356 is now a highly sought after car.

 

Thank you Bullfighter for endorsing blu sera.
Jon
'86 blu sera GTS

 

This.

 

My 87 328 feels noticeably lighter and faster than my 77 308. Build quality, braking, handling, finish is much better than the 308. I recently rejected several offers for over double what i paid for my 87 328. Prices on 328s are going nowhere but up,especially US GTBs, as very few were brought here and they are better handlers than GTSs.

 

There were a lot of changes between '77 and the late QVs. I need to spend more time in my '85, but first impressions are that it isn't much different than my '87. Clutch is actually lighter in the '85.

 

According to this Auto Yahoo article, the 3x8 are one of the 10 cars turning collectable in 2015:

https://autos.yahoo.com/photos/the-10-old-cars-turning-into-collectable-classics-in-2015-1423589548-slideshow/

I think it's rarer and more beautiful than a 911 of the same vintage but also much more affordable since few people know about the 3x8.

 

Guys, since this thread was about value I started another thread about resto in the general section if you want follow.

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/ferrari-discussion-not-model-specific-sponsored-algar-ferrari/477335-restored-vs-unrestored-how-should-we-restore.html#post143722180

 

There is the "Press". I guess we really are in the Mania phase.......LOL!

 

Well, a few people know about it...

 

The comments are interesting. One person claims that the Ferrari major is every 15,000 miles. Another person claimed to have owned a 328, a 1982? The poser is exposed.

 

When you see two adds like this, it testifies that prices are really going up and out-growing some customers:

The first one is from a french professional "broker", who sells an american '89 328 GTS, which is still in America, delivered by said broker to anyone in France with all customs and associated red tape cleared, ready to be driven, for 77.000 €.
The second one is the same American car for sale today in Beverly Hills for 56.000 dollars, that is about 51.000 euros.
(gross margin before custom clearance, taxes, etc..etc...for said broker is 26.000 euros)

Ferrari 328 GTS QV Cabriolet d'occasion, Essence, ? 77 750,- à Cannes (France)

http://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com//1989-ferrari-328gts--c-3850.htm

Rgds

 

this is what our cars are all about.

fighting on the track, surrounded by "other" supercars

Man those were the days, racing F40's ( and these guys were really pushing..)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcLP8_WT55U

The black 308 of is the victum. There is another 308 ( finishing 4th)just a few cars behind doing well too.

BTW the black one was driven by Klaas Zwart, the founder and owner of the ascari racetrack in Spain. The red on was driven bij Dick Waayenberg, who still owns the car. Funny thing about that particular car: it's a GTS

 

shouldn't customs be zero, since country of origin ( manufactured ) is Italy ? Or am I wrong ?
Though import tax is huge at 20%.

Best Regards

Martin

 

True Martin, of course.

Should you apply the rules as valid today in France, as far as I know it would be:

"10% custom taxes, calculated on price paid plus shipping". so 10% of (55.000 + 3.000 (lets say (?) = 58.000 dollars) = 5.800 dollars
58.000 + 5.800 = 63.800 dollars.
63.800 is then the basis for 20% VAT tax (it would be less if the car was more than 30 years old I think; and yes, VAT is calculated sur base price + shipping + custom tax)
So VAT = 12.760 dollars + 63.800 dollars, which makes 76.650 dollars.

Price is about 78.000 euros, which is "about 85.800 dollars" with 1 € = 1,10 U$

That leaves the broker with about 9.250 dollars net margin (but less if he pays for the CoC)

Rgds

 

I find the concept of paying taxes based on taxes you had to pay incredibly stupid...

 

Being French as I am, you know that we are "in the leading pack" as for imagination on taxation...our American friends, on the other hands, do not even have adopted VAT yet.

Rgds

 

And quite happy to have NOT adopted that yet....




PDG

 

Invented here, my friend...VAT is "made in France" indeed.

Rgds

 

This applies to all EU members, doesn't it ?
But I believe you French hold the record in tobacco taxes.
Living 10 kms distant from the border I see it each and every weekend, when the French invade our area for tobacco purchasing

Ten years ago reversed.

Best Regards

Martin

 

Martin,

My cars are "about three kilometers" from the German border of Saarland, so I am familiar with borders criss-cross...

Regards

 

Its a shame we didnt meet up when I lived in Europe. I should think we would have had some fantastic conversation and friendship. I lived in Mons, Belgium for about six years (2002-2008) - two hours or so from Paris. My wife and I made many weekend trips across Luxembourg to Germany. Sometimes I miss those days...but I definitely do NOT miss VAT.



PDG

 

Martin + Bruno,

it's 2 p.m. What about doing a bit of work instead of wasting your time on FerrariChat?

Regards,
Robert

(pretending to work...)

 

Robert,

Instead of "pretending to work", which could be tiring, read then "Sebino's" hypothesis in the threads "how many steel carbed cars, etc..."

Rgds

 

Robert,
thanks for the reminder. I just forgot about time and have to immediately call the guys, who do my work inquiring for something important, to avoid, that they start thinking the same as you

And FChat is no waste of time. The value threads are pure entertainment

Best Regards
Martin

 

In fact I already read it, but better answer tonight... in the after work hours

Looking at "Sebino's" list, I have to say that his theory sounds quite convincing.