Is this a bubble?

VAT is indeed truly a French invention, for the record its inventor was a high-ranking civil servant named Maurice Lauré and it was put in force for the first time by an April 10th, 1954 law. It was then quickly adopted by a large number of other countries due to its simplicity. So yes, we spreaded that disease. But this is not a topic on taxes…

It is indeed a pity that we missed you when you were in Europe, especially as Mons is rather central and at short range not only from Paris but form other places where I use to drive, and probably some of our german members too. However, all hope is probably not lost: we never know, it is a small world indeed these days.

Since it seems that I am doing my best to derail this thread, back to the original question “is this a bubble?”.
Well I think that when you see some importers/brokers beginning to propose American cars for sale here, with all importation hassle solved, it signifies that the market for “euro” models has now outgrown some categories of customers, and that the cars are sold to “different” customers than those of eighteen months ago.

Rgds

 

Martin,

Have you thought that maybe one of these guys is reading you on the F-Chat?

Rgds

 

Woe betide ..!

 

Than never go to the Netherlands either. We at least equal France on that. Plain robbery

 

From my experience it seemed that all European countries were at 21.5% VAT.

Does that sound about right?



PDG

 

I would certainly not intend to transform the thread in a tax treaty...

Basically and quickly: each member state has three (sometimes two?) levels of VAT depending on the nature of what is taxed.
VAT on food and restaurants here is at 5,5%; there is an intermediary level at 10, and a top level at 20.
(also an extra low level at 2,1% for medications, etc...)
All European Union Members states are given brackets for each of the three levels of tax, inside which they are free to decide which percentage to apply.
For instance, I think that Luxemburg is at 15% for the highest level, whereas Denmark is at 25%.

Rgds

 

In case it hasn't been mentioned earlier, Gooding has a 1979 GTB listed in their Amelia Island sale. Not many pictures yet. Should give us some idea of what a steel GTB is worth. They also have a fiberglass car in the same sale.

Steel:

1979 Ferrari 308 GTB | Gooding & Company

Glass:

1977 Ferrari 308 GTB Vetroresina | Gooding & Company

 

Thank you for the breakdown.

I prefer not to have this as a tax thread, but it does relate to sales prices of vehicles.

Related: May I ask roughly what European Road taxes are on a car like the 308/328? When I lived in Belgium I had one tax-free vehicle which I used for my Ford Expedition and its 5.4L V8. I also had a BMW 316 and ended up paying around 500Euro per year for that. I know that road taxes were based on engine size.



PDG

 

I know the owner of the Glass car. It is 1 of 6 sold new in Canada. He was already offered $300,000 and refused. I hope he gets more than that at the auction.

 

Canadian cars were wet sump is that right?

 

In France, for the time being, the answer is clear: NONE.
Except the day of first registration of the car under your own name (that is when you buy it) which is about 350 euros if my memory serves me well.
But, FOR THE TIME BEING it escapes yearly-recuring taxes on emissions, etc...that all modern Ferraris are paying.
(of course, you have insurance costs).

Rgds

(And VAT on second-hand vehicles - older than six months - is not applicable again, because it has already been paid by the first owner, and there is no "Value Added" to be taxed in a sale between individuals; on 308/328s, prices are "full" (except if the car has been registered until the sale under a company, but this would bring us to far...)

 

I think the glass cars were Dry Sump. Not sure though. Here is a description for you guys:

Description

To be SOLD NO RESERVE at Gooding and Companys Amelia Island Auction March 13, 2015 http://www.goodingco.com/auction/amelia-island-2015/ 1 of 712 Vetroresina Coupes Built World Wide! 1 of 100 Built for North American Production. This particular Ferrari is 1 of 6 (app) Built for Canadian Production. Complete and comprehensive history from original date of delivery at Luigi Sports Cars (Ferrari Dealer) Montreal, Canada. All books, including Original Service book stamped, invoices with continuous flowing history. A 5-owner vehicle from New. This Vehicle has never left Canada. All Owners are accounted for. Correct in every way. We have had the pleasure of owning This Special Motorcar for the past 14 Years. Fresh Service, Belt service/replacement, fully sorted from Front to Back, including complete brake-Caliper re-build, fine detail of under-carriage to incredibly high-standards just performed (Invoice to prove for over $15,000) Less than 7-Weeks ago By Massimo Conti (former Mechanic to F1 driver Michael Shumacher). Confirmed Numbers-Maching Ferrari. Painted in it's Original Ferrari Red Exterior color over Tan leather. Paint is virtually Concours level, having been completely dismantled less than 400 kilometers ago, stripped, primed with Original Ferrari primer, Ferrari correct paint process followed, and removing all Natural waves as most VetroResina cars have. The process took over 2-years, and fit, finish/panel gaps are incredible. (paint process was over $37,000 alone). Interior leather was replaced with Correct leather at same time paint was completed. No modifications. Campagnolo correct Date-coded original wheels near perfect. Michelin Correct XWX tires with a mere 500 kilometers. Tool kit and roll complete. Original Jack etc. To locate a VetroResina Ferrari proves to be a difficult task. This Particular vehicle we believe, represents THE BEST of it's kind offered in many years. An Extremely special opportunity to acquire a very Rare, extremely desirable Collector-Quality Ferrari.

My mechanic did most of the recent work and I saw this car 2 weeks ago. It will have no problem going over the $300,000!

M.

 

In the UK road tax is calculated on emissions and engine size. My 308 is £230 a year. My Alfa is tax free thu as it's classed as a historic vehicle (vehicles built before 1st Jan 1974).

 

Each country has its own regulations. But I can tell you, what's in Germany. There are different options. But I picked one, which I regard as most important for classic car owners.
If the car is older than 30 years it can be registered as a classic car. And then engine size doesn't matter any more.
For a car with 'H-registration' (H for historic ) you have to pay EUR 193,--/year. No matter if it's a 1,2 ltr. VW Beetle or a 7 ltr. Hemi-Cuda
Tags are standard, except, that you get a 'H' at the end of the number.

Best Regards

Martin
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Do you still have the fixed date in the UK ? Not like us with 30 years ?

best Regards

Martin

 

We have the same system here in Norway but the charge is only 50 EUR.

 

In Canada registration is $10 Euros if a Historic Vehicle and $70 Euros if it isn't. They just raised the prices.

 

Actually it's just changed in the UK and from Jan this year it's a rolling exemption for all cars over 40 years old so my 308 has 6 years to go but my Alfa is 44 year old so still qualifies for free road tax.

 

Wow that's really cheap!! Some vehicles pay £ 500 a year in the UK!!!

 

What for? That's a rip off!

 

The reason it's so high here in the UK is to penalise drivers of high emission vehicles in an attempt to reduce greenhouse gasses in line with the Kyoto Accord.
Sadly Canada of course, who initially signed up to the agreement, are the only country ever to have pulled out of the accord, presumably because your massive
GHG emissions are so way over the agreed targets that you would have been liable to billions of dollars in fines if you had stayed in.

just saying.....

 

Why on earth would you do that, it's one of the diffrences that sets the car apart from it's steel cousins!
Must have added loads of weight with the bondo needed.....

 

We'll see if it comes back to haunt him. It is one of those major decisions you need to make when restoring a glass car.

 

We have emissions testing for that. Fail the test and your car gets pulled off the street. My Historic Ferrari is exempt......

 

In California, if they could still test Model T's, they would.