Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

Does that mean that the P1 tub can't accommodate a tyre as wide as those on the 918/Laf? Or that the tub/components aren't able to tolerate the loads involved?

My understanding is that the F1 used quite narrow tyres and McLaren have stuck with the idea because they believe it gives a better driving experience.

 

I have both. I have not tried the Trofeos yet. I'm saving them for the track although I'll likely do my first track day, or two, on the Corsas to get familiar with the car on track before trying them. I'm quite happy with the Corsas as road tires so far.

 

That sounds very sensible. Any luck organizing your P1/Laf/918 showdown?

 

That's what I want to know, when are these cars going head to head?

 

A car's ability to swallow wider size tires depends on the wheel well cavity. The body shell inside is a hard limit, you can only go so close. The outside is a different matter, the fenders can theoretically go out infinitely to accommodate any size tires.

12C platform was designed with a certain sized tire in mind, the control arm length, the geometry of the suspension components, car's roll centre, etc all are designed for that spec.

Fitting wider tires seems easy enough just playing with offset, but by using less back spacing and pushing the tires and wheels farther out, the force acting on the components will be different, there is more load coming from the 'outside' of the tire and apply a more pronounced rolling/twisting force on the hub itself and the force acting on the whole suspension geometry will also changed and that will change the handling characteristics.

On street road the difference is negligible, that's why you see all those weird sized after market wheels with major concave or deep dish or whatever is the in thing are fine driving up and down the street. But at the limit the difference can mean breaking something and crash or not.

 

Great write up Whoopsy, and comments on the P1.

The only thing I'd say regarding your comments of the P1 in comparison to the 918: It's more of a PERFORMANCE exercise off that 12C Platform. As you mentioned, they basically squeezed practically every ounce of performance out of they could, with some negligible E-mode ability. Good for them!

The 918 is more of an overall ENGINEERING exercise, because it encompasses performance, economy, relative luxury/nice interior, great sounding naturally aspirated engine, open top motoring, innovative solutions to new problems (fluid fill for the regenerative braking for example), etc.

So though their performance may be similar, which is a great credit to McLaren (as you mentioned). Absolutely! The 918, actually ticks many, more boxes while still offering that PERFORMANCe, excitement, relative economy, HTML-5 based Infotainment System, innovative solutions, and exclusivity/bespoke nature your all to familiar with and probably enjoying at the moment (without seemingly giving up too much of anything).

This is what happens/the result when money, world class engineers, out of the box + forward thinking, determination, innovation, and pedigree collide.

All things considered, the 918 should go down as one of the best cars of all time IMHO.

We'll wait for the article, Laguna Seca comparison.

 

PS: When I say "engineering", I don't mean that as a slight (as some people could/would as well).

Some more reactionary, wayward thinkers, compare the 959 and 918 as if they're similar vehicles. However, the 959 was basically a super hopped up 911, with superior new technology (Sequential Turbo's, innovative 4WD, etc.), nonetheless still operating from the same platform, wheel base, and rear engine configuration, and all it's compromises as any 911.

We sometimes forget, the 959 competed and won the Paris-Dakar rally (though that race wasn't as great at the time as in the past, but still a significant achievement for a 200 mph vehicle). The 918, wasn't winning the Paris-Dakar Rally then, now, and possibly ever! LOL

The 918 (as you know), was built from the ground up to be both an engineering exercise (as the 959), as well as an exciting, extremely low COG, open top, NA, excellent handling, well balanced vehicle. It's more a road, track vehicle, than a engineering exercise-potential rally vehicle as the 959. The 959 even had ride height, that could be significantly raised on the standard vehicle, if I remember correctly?

So though they're similarities with the two vehicles. There's also clear distinctions with the two as well.

 

The 959 and 918 share a familial line but are obviously worlds apart.

Where they are very similar is in Porsche's approach to supercar vs their peers of the times, and their reception by the media and the public.

 

The P1 is basically McLaren's version of the 959, they have more in common than people realized.

Both are the souped up range topping model of their respective range. Both modify the regular car's body to including extreme aero tweaks. And both also had trouble selling out the initial allocation and had to cut down the planned production numbers.

Except one has a real racing pedigree vs the other's internet bench racing pedigree.

The 918 share similar traits actually with the F1. Both are clean sheet design that's not based on anything, both have mostly bespoke stuff that's car specific, both are also trail blazers in the respective era with the technology used.

It's also too bad that one has a racing pedigree but the other has the same internet bench racing pedigree.

 

Interesting perspective and comparisons. They make sense to me. Where does the LaF fit in this continuum, in your opinion?

 

It doesn't.

Ferrari's halo cars are more of a collectible than anything else.

288GTO never got a chance to race, F40 did some racing, but F50, Enzo and now LaFerrari will never be raced. So it's a mix bag for Ferrari's cars.

All 5 area also not cutting edge tech for their generations, Ferrari simply used what they know best to build them. LaFerrari 'could' be called cutting edge but Ferrari didn't jump in, they just dip their toes in the hybrid thing.

In the end, Ferrari just being Ferrari. They are just different.

 

The Enzo raced as a Maserati.

 

I've spoken to both owners. Once the cold weather goes away we'll start looking for suitable dates at our local track. Should be fun! I've sat in both their cars and they're both absolutely beautiful. I can't wait to drive them!

 

If the (non WP)918 really is faster on Laguna Seca than a Trofeo R P1 by 0.8s, that's a huge defeat for the McLaren. Laguna seca should be more suitable to the (claimed) P1's aerodynamic excellence than Angsley.

It seems to me that the only clear advantage left on McLaren's part is the more limited production, which might make P1 owners less likely to suffer big depreciation(allthough that is rather dependant on McLaren and whether they'll make a similar car using the same tub/engine/suspension technology at some point in the future).

 

Have they ever used a different setup?

 

Well said/Good Points!

 

Huh?

Porsche sold out all 918 of their planned/allocated 918's. They never adjusted their number. And the media mostly loves the car (Chris Harris, Sutcliffe, and their presuppositions/prejudices with "egg on their face" be damned)!! LOL

918's are even being listed well over list price now (not sure on actual closings, but still a very good sign as to the confidence of the 918 resale market). Of course some sellers are more reasonable (while still over list). But that's normal at this point of the market, before everyone knows what their cars are worth via time. This is experienced all the time in select emerging Real Estate markets. Though the overall appreciation of a neighborhood or it's properties can be up (let's say 30% over the previous year), there's still tremendous range in the market, as not every seller is aware of the rates of appreciation or demand in their hood. Of course that changes over time. Nonetheless, we haven't seen or heard of any 918's being re-listed for less than MSRP or cost, as far as we know.

Remember, the 918 sold their last 50 cars in a flurry (about 2 days). People wanted them, and apparently still do.

Let's not forget, Porsche had a totally different marketing concept than McLaren or Ferrari. Those guys, were basically trying to sell their cars off specs and numbers ASAP (some more dubious than others), as they were modified vehicles or varying parts bin exercises.

Porsche was building the 918 from the ground up (as well as the first in the new Hyper-Brid market), thus was very conservative in promoting the vehicle, and seemingly more interested in getting many of it's opposing, far flung goals right. Of course, it's also/always the Porsche, German way to be conservative during the developmental process.

 

It is unfortunate that none of these current 3 hyper cars will be used in real racing. As you say, they are internet bench racers, that is they can only be used for track days to set lap times for us keyboard warriors to disseminate - not true racing. That is quite unlike the 959 which won the Paris to Dakar rally in 1986! I guarantee none of these cars will ever enter a rally race. I look forward to Mr. Glinkenhaus's project, a very different take on supercars.

 

Current racing regulations don't lend themselves to entering a hypercar. Simple as that. Enjoy them for what they are and follow F1 in the weekends.

 

The data speaks for itself and the data that's coming will shock and awe.
There is a clear winner and a big lesson for everyone.
TRACTION.
Don't leave the drawing board without it.
More than 700 HP on 2wd is sadly a total waste on road legal tires.

 

Something more to be added - McLaren not only lost at LS, but their technicians struggled almost all day to reach that gap of 0,8 sec.
Heard of good amount of Trofeos used in this efforts, but let's see the article first...

 

Neither car is perfect. Different design choices have yielded cars that have pros and cons on the track. P1 might be a bit slower in a qualifying lap, but maybe not so after a few laps. Being that this isn't racing and there are no real rules, it's pretty hard to draw a direct comparison. I'd say for the most part they have identical performance. Some wins, some losses, but largely the same. We're talking fractions of a second here. From the horse's mouth:

 

I have stated this many times - 918's hot lap mode isn't ON/OFF switch, you can use everywhere.
To be consistently fast, you have to use SPORT on the straights, because:
1. less drag (better speed);
2. better regen...

 

I'm sure they were driving it correctly. Porsche had some people there telling them what to do and how to make the most of it.

I think that's what Treynor is getting at. If you want a consistently fast lap, the 918 probably isn't going to put down the HL time and might not be any quicker than the P1 on a consistent basis. Maybe even slower. We probably won't find that out though because magazines just try to set hot laps, not an average of 10-15.

I understand what you're saying, but I'm not sure it would in fact be consistent either. You are assuming that sport mode creates a zero or positive net charge on each lap at the right time. It seems highly unlikely to me for that to occur. Switching as you say also would seem counter intuitive. Running sport mode on straight may decrease drag, but if it regens at that time it means you aren't getting full power either. If anything you'd want low drag and max power/low regen on straights, then max downforce and high regen in the corners. In any case, I doubt you'll end up with a zero net change after each lap. You'd probably have to adjust your strategy each lap, and I'm not sure anyone could really think 5-10 laps ahead and know exactly when and where they'll be.

 

People keep forgetting, Hot Lap Mode (as far as we know) could only be dissipated by the likes of Randy Pobst, breaking records at tracks like Luguna Seca.

The overall majority of drivers will/can never do this in hot lap mode.

Walliser, has already stated this many times.

And as you said: "Race Mode (which is only 4-5 secs slower on the Ring than)" , you can presumably drive all day, around and around on the track as fast as you want.

Sounds like Pre-Sour Grapes (if what we hear is true) by McLaren fans!