Window Frame Painting

The window frame on my 87 Mondial coupe (part number 61213600 ?) is supposed to be painted black. I guess through the years and other owners it has worn and been repainted, touched up, and God only know what else.

I would like to repaint it. Has anyone attempted to repaint the frame on their car, what paint did you use, and do you have any tips on attempting this project?

Thanks

 

Mine is in the condition, something I was going to tackle, hope we get some help with this

 

Ditto

 

My 83 has bright chrome under the black paint. Same with the trim around the door windows. Bare chrome usually makes paint adhesion difficult -- and it was clearly an issue on my car. (no evidence of a primer used on the original.)

Mine has been touched-up over the years by previous owners and <cough> by myself <ahem> as a quick fix... the old paint was thick and the boundaries between the old and new telegraph through. Looks good from 10 feet though One solution would be to use a high-build primer and sand before topcoating, but I think the problem with the original paint's questionable adhesion would still cause future problems.

My eventual plans are to remove the old paint and re-spray with a good self-etching primer (e.g. DuPont Variprime) followed by a high build intermediate primer and a suitable black topcoat. i.e. just re-do the whole thing.

I really don't want to sand the chrome, so I'll (hopefully) rely on the magic of chemistry to make that prime coat stick. We shall see.

EDIT: As far as repainting it in place goes, I think it's only a temporary fix -- no matter what method you use. I think the old paint adhesion problem will reappear in this case. The big issue I face is just what you describe, numerous amateur repainting attempts... using who-knows-what.

 

Thanks Charles. Can you identify a high-build intermediate primer?

 

Randy:

From memory, I think our cars are similar with regard to the condition of the paint on this trim.

With regard to paint, use whatever is recommended for the paint system you're using.

I like the DuPont products. 1141S is the high build primer. It is compatible with the Variprime and their "chroma" range of automotive paints.

Depending on the surface finish you might not need a high-build primer.

Note that this is commercial stuff, and it will cost (hundreds), and has specific requirements for prep, spraying, and topcoating. Only reasonable if you're painting a lot (with 5 cars, two tractors and a 70 year old fridge restoration I can justify it... and I do lots of small parts in batches.)

Also, the Variprime sprays beautifully and is very durable. Note that there are (I think) two kinds of Variprime, one of them contains zinc chromate... you don't need that level of corrosion protection in this application IMO. Variprime sticks well to things I didn't think it would adhere to.

I suspect you could do a decent job with rattle cans as well on a small job such as this... they have come a long way -- prep. is the key, and that includes getting the old paint off IMO. I really like self-etching primers on any metal.

Is yours chrome under the black?

EDIT: Just a couple of quick thoughts (synopsis): I think adhesion of the prime coat is critical to a durable finish, and I think the bond strength of the original paint is a serious issue. That's why I think getting down to bare metal and using a high quality primer is essential. If the trim is off the car, this is easily addressed. I can also pretty much guarantee that just hitting it with something like an alkyd enamel might be a temporary cosmetic fix, but you could probably scrape the stuff off with your fingernail at any future time. Sorry to say, I don't think there's much that can be done with the trim in place, nothing I'd want to undertake anyway. Also, the automotive paints I mentioned are in a different league than what you can buy over-the-counter in small quantities -- they really are tough.

 

Well so much for me thinking I was the only one with this problem. I guess with these car being 20 to 30 years old it is to be expected.

Charles, to answer you question, I am pretty sure there is chrome under the black paint.

I would have to say about 99% of my trim is in good condition, and covered with that dull black color. There are three spots where it looks like some one has taken a black Sharpie and gone over areas where the chrome may have appeared. On the left side it appears that some chrome is showing, but it is multiple small spots the size 2 to 3mm, which makes i look bad.

Charles, all your comments are good, and it has made me think about what would be needed to prepare the areas of concern prior to painting them. If I do that would I end up having to prep the whole trim and painting the whole trim just to cover a few small spots.

Maybe this is one of those problems that is easier to live with than attempt to fix, or at least me attempting to fix it, but I will look into the materials Charles made mention of just to see what is involved.

Again thanks for all your input.

CB

 

Hey Chaps I just rubbed mine down carefully and used stoppers to fill the chips, then masked and painted with satin black 2 pack paint, looks like new now. Masking is critical though.
Regards Bell.

 

Hi Chuck - Windshield trim?? I did mine - only touched up some sills w/ markers. Lots of taping - Sanded, primed, painted and clear coated - great results.

 

Hi - What are "stoppers"?

 

Oh sorry ''stoppers'' is a very thick paint undercoat in a tube, it's used in paint chips where a filler would be overkill and primer is too thin.
Regards, Bell

 

Good to hear of some good results without resorting to removal.

CB: The products I mentioned are representative of what's available to the trade, the sort of things you won't find in a hardware store or big box store. I've been doing a lot of painting these last few years and I've come to appreciate just how good some of those products are.

I'll mention two other things:

Places that sell to the boatbuilding industry can be excellent sources for small quantities of very high performance coatings (after all, salt water immersion is a pretty difficult environment.)

Also, the thing that got me into using some of the professional products was a friend's homebuilt aircraft project -- after I saw what he was doing I got wise to this. You might want to check what some of the aircraft guys are doing as they have pretty stringent requirements WRT corrosion, weight, fatigue, etc. You don't want your plane falling out of the sky, and these guys may be among the few who obsess more than us!

EDIT: Bell Bloke -- 2 pack (2 part catalyzed to us Yanks) is a great choice, my experience with this is that it builds well and dries glass-hard.

Also, one thing I can recommend from experience: get the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) for anything you use and follow the safety guidance. Some of these things are god-awful harmful.

 

I wonder if the trim once removed could be powder coated?

 

My understanding is that the chrome would have to be removed for the powder coat to adhere.

 

Has anyone just removed the paint and let the chrome shine through? At some point in the initial design process that had to have been the thought since they wouldn't have specified a chrome (or stainless steel) finish for something that was intended to be painted.

I wonder how a bright finish would look?

 

Talk to a resteration shop yesterday (one that has worked on a large number of Ferraris), and was told that the window trim is aluminum and that it is anodized, and that the anodizing job was just okay, not really done that well.

After looking at the windshield trim we walked around the car and that there were many areas of black trim which were in just so-so condition.

Received a quote to redo all the black window trim on the whole car, plus a few other spots which need fixing. I am going to put the car into this shop in March and let them do it. Rather have someone do it that has done this type of work before, than me learning on my car.

 

Powdercoat is thick and they might distort in the oven, also they might get damaged when being put back on. If properly prepped, masked and 2 pack painted it will be as good as new. Regarding anodised trim, Ferrari seemed to do both painted or anodised but I haven't worked out on what cars and why, all the Mondials I've seen are painted onto chrome, rubbish idea.
You will also get better results removing the silicone from the window surrounds, painting and then re silicone.
I did mine in about 8 hours on a nice warm day.
Regards Bell.

 

Ok, I admit that my trim looks terrible also. After detail I will rub mothers back to black on the trim and it helps the black pop out a little. Another thing I've done is laid black electrical tape over for a temporary clean look.

So I will be prepping and masking the trim for paint soon. Just need to find the time.

 

Bell, Did you spray or brush the "two pack" paint?

 

Charles, thanks much for the info. Mine are exactly as you say black paint over chrome. They are not anodized aluminum. The paint is flaking and looks bad. Will paint remover work on this application, or does it need to be sanded?

 

I've wondered about this as well. My guess is the chrome would look out-of-place, given that there's no chrome elsewhere. Sure would solve this maintenance issue though!

I'm sure you can chemically strip it, the issue would be containing it and not getting it elsewhere (I'm assuming that you'd be doing it 'in-place'). It seems to be that application and removal of stripper in-place would be a bit of a challenge, unless you're doing a heroic job masking things and you're comfortable working with a toothbrush and cotton swabs over small areas at a time.

The wisdom I've seen with regard to painting over chrome is: (a) sand the surface to give it some tooth, (b) remove the chrome plating first. I will personally add: (c) use a self-etching primer and hope for the best! I have piles of old chrome trim in the shed, I'll try a few tests and report the results when the present arctic experience is over. (60 MPH winds predicted later today, and -6F (-22C) temps. -- seems we're having Claude's weather there.)

 

In all my years associated with the Mondial (since 1992) I've never seen chrome windshield trim, and that includes a recent internet search for the same.

Looking closely at my own, the trim has a hard, black and durable finish. Plus it appears to be original (never removed/replaced). Anyway, all of this leads me to believe that mine is powder-coated.

A History of Powder Coatings

 

Wade: I'm thinking there were variations on the finishing of these over the years, or maybe different suppliers. Mine has what is almost certainly chrome underneath (if not, then bright polished stainless). Anyway, I think you are lucky not to have this issue. (BTW, just saw your car in the pictures thread --- looks great.)