Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

Recording the fastest lap in practice doesn't mean you won the gp in f1

Since this isn't f1, it's quite interesting how the Mac is more consistent with its performance.

The p1 would win in a lapped race in Laguna if the data so far is true

 

How 'bout this... 991 GT3 was 2 s faster on Trofeo R than it was on bespoke MPSC2, on the same track, with the same driver. Enough evidence?

Yes, but it will regenerate far more efficiently than P1 becauae of brake regen.
It will also brake bettee Because of brake regen.

 

It's amazing, so many of them are focusing on this. But then again (unfortunately) it's not.

Do they not understand, the 918's superior battery design (and what adds that "weight" they love to talk about so much) is what allows it to have a "Hot Lap" mode in the first place?

Hot Lap, is a Luxury, Get Out Of Jail Free Card for the 918 due to it's superior design.

If you're going for the fastest lap, laps, why not use Hot Lap Mode? Duh! That's what these test are based off of. Do they expect the mags to test these cars for their "best 30 laps"? Come on now. If so, that's what "Race Mode" (or even Sports Hybrid) mode are for. You can go, round and around to your hearts content in those modes (if you like), as it's been stated ad nauseum here and elsewhere numerous time (to the purposeful Chagrin of certain new, repeat posters, or McLaren internet teams attempts for us to forget this).

Race Mode (according to Porsche), is 3-5 secs behind Hot Lap on the Ring, and you can't burn the battery out.

Even in "Hot Lap" mode, most owners will never deplete the battery. It's only, pro's like Pobst, trying to set track records who have that capacity in the first place. There's still regenerative braking in Hot Lap Mode, despite Porsche's previous description of it being "all out". That's only relative to the other modes. How many times, does this need to be stated?

And let's not even get into the tires. I thought, the Trofeo argument was pretty clear (not just the fact, that both cars were equipped with standard high performance/relative All Weather tires, with the Trofeo being the "Performance" option).

Nonetheless, there appears to be much much squirming off the latest P1 loss, when all the cards were clearly stacked in it's favor (albeit being out of England for the first time). So we get all this (I guess)? Flat Earth!

Shrugs.

 

SHUT UP ABOUT THE TIRES. JESUS. TROFEO R IS AS GOOD AS IT GETS RIGHT NOW

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrLQpAt5Mes

 

In Seville, we did 6 flat out laps in Race HB mode, as fast as out skills would allow. Along with another well respected member on here, we finished with a large % batt gain..

Round Goodwood late last year, we did 3 laps in Hot lap mode, again finished with a % batt gain. My understanding is that when in HL mode, the front e-motor also assists the braking.?

 

Bingo!

McLaren fans, are blatantly ignorant to how HL works (or just pretend) to wiggle their way into a comfortable argument after another loss.

The bottom line is: The Porsche would win, however the test was designed. The Porsche is just more flexible in it's battery design and capacity, as well as having the advantage of "Brake Regeneration", even in "Hot Lap" mode (which can really be multiple, or even endless "LAPS", depending on track and driver).

It's "Silly Season" again, after the latest Mclaren loss, even with odds stacked in it's favor (the track, tires, version of 918, changing of tires for P1).

 

There's brake regeneration, no constant engine assist in Hot Lap (at least regarding battery charging). That's "Race Hybrid" where you can have both engine and brake regeneration. However, you are correct that the engine also assist in braking the first 0.5 G's. This is one of the reasons, you get better tire wear on the 918 during these test (one set of tires, while P1 needs changes,e even on standard Corsca's), though it's the heavier vehicle. And of course, this adds to it's superior braking (as demonstrated in testing) as well. It's also one of the reasons, Porsche had to work out the kinks in it's brake feel in it's earlier development stage.

So depending on the track (and driver), of course you can actually gain (battery, as you stated) in "Hot Lap" mode due to 918's brake regeneration.

PS: As WT Doom indicated the other day: Depending on the lengthy, and complexity of the track, you could probably run in various modes (let's say "Race" or "Sports Hybrid" on twisty portions where you don't need maximum boost; then "Race" or "Hot Lap" mode for the straights). This blending, could probably produce even better times, depending on track and driver.

There's certainly more to learn, find out indeed with the 918, as more owners and professional drivers take it to the track (or magazines provide more creative testing).

Thanks for your comments and insights!!

 

Off-the-shelf tyres, not bespoke, I think I clearly stated this inconsistency.

Except it didn't at Laguna Seca, it was 1.5s down on its best by lap 3.

I also forgot to add to that to the myths busted in this test, thanks for reminding me.

Myth
Brake re-gen improves braking.

At really high speeds it might but MT found that both cars had such powerful brakes that they could produce enough braking torque to lock the wheels at any speed below 160mph even without regen.

As regards regen, sure brake regen helps, but the downside of AWD is that because you spend more time at WOT and have better traction, you have excess engine power a lot less of the time and therefore don't get as much engine regen.

 

I have no horse in this race (I am a Ferrari fan myself), but this evidence is indisputable. Trofeo Rs are the fastest tyres in the world this side of a full racing slick and all keen track enthusiasts will tell you so!

PS: Where is Manuma when you need him? Lol!

 

Hey? That makes no sense whatsoever. Having a HL mode is nothing to do with brake regen, it's about how fast you expend your battery charge. The McLaren could definitely have had one, if is was felt worthwhile, but seen as these are road cars to be used on track days, qualifying laps have little application.

And it should be remembered that whenever a 918 is tested against another car, you're really comparing a qualifying lap with a race lap.

 

Thank you.
I understand that in HL you only have re-gen from the brakes, I was informed on a factory visit , that due to the extra performance whilst in this mode, along with to assist with the re-gen, the font motor actually preforms the additional task of assisting the brakes ......that's why when in Hl mode you can feel the extra assistance.....

 

You know what is the ONLY indisputable fact we learned after 784 pages? Magazines tests at this level are very subjective because of all the factors involved that change (from tires to driver, from temperature to air parameters, etc) that the only real answer to which car is the best is "the car you love the most".

 

An off-the-shelf Trofeo R was 2s faster than bespoke designed-for MPSC2...

How much more evidence you need?

Because it was driven in HL mode.

Hey, mythbuster, which car will save it's brakes more on track, the one with brake regen or the one without it?

Why do you think F1 cars have smaller rear brakes with KERS?

Oh, BTW, when top gear tested these cars in Spain, 918 outbraked P1.

 

The Mac System is a KERS system, not a full HB re-gen....Mac just don't have the rescores to design even the cooling system for full HB system.......imv

What's also very telling imv, is the way in which the 2 cars actually manage the batts, One says its batts will last the life of the car, the other gives the normal 3 years......

 

Really?
It has everything to do with brake regen because without it you'd be out of juice after battery was depleted, since in HL mode engine is not doing the recharging.
McLaren cannot have a realistic HL mode since it has a much smaller battery and no brake regen.

Race hybrid mode would probably still be faster than P1 on Laguna Seca(4s advantage on 20.6 km track relates to around 0.7 s diff on a track of Laguna Seca's length - rough math aside). And it would definately be faster than P1 on comparable rubber. Plus, this wasn't even a Weissach car.

 

The "engine assistance" your talking about, probably comes from the brake retardation (that first 0.5 G's of resistance), that I eventually mentioned in my response to you. But you had already responded with this one.

The constant engine re-charge, is in Race Hybrid mode.

I'm sure you already know these things. However, I'm multitasking, and could be missing subtleties. So I apologize in advance, for any confusion. Lol

 

Bingo to all. And at least you understand how the car works (clearly), before entering a debate.

Wish others could as well.

 

BTW, I'd imagine that in Motor Trend's comparo the P1 was timed in it's lowest, road illegal Race setting?

This should give McLaren fans some idea about 918's talents...

 

All speculation...no one would actually race any of these cars in a proper race - would you risk "trading paint" with another car in your $1 million dollar road car? These are not race cars, just very fast road cars, so they were never designed to go 50 laps at Laguna Seca. They are meant to be taken to the track to "see what they can do" outside the very limited boundaries of public roads.

 

I never heard from Mclaren officials that we will build 500 either when I paid my despot ! And I'm in contact with them almost daily since my 12C !

Also the idea comparing the 12C to the P1 getting old and funny anyone who owns both knows they nothing alike.

That's why Mclaren received my 675LT order and we spoke about few specs,I believe it's performance is class leading, with amazing technology and ideas.

Mark call your dealer and ask them what Mclaren showed them on Friday at the GRC in London.

They will tell you nothing short of "Extraordinary".

Mbn

 

He sure ain't sane but that's not how R Dennis would like his customer call him

 

I first saw the P1 in Sep 12, along with another member on here, the no discussed at the time was 500, along with a price indicted less than the current list, some time later I was told that the no had been reduced to the 375 along with the current list price, this was around the time the Lafa price was announced.....

Whist I was issued with a contract, along with the post Geneva 13 contract, I never got as far a actually paying a deposit, until I could have a test drive, this took place in Nov 13, at cost to me of 1500.00 GBP, after which I decide not to proceed...

A decision which I actually regret....

 

WE ?

BUSTED ! HE'S ONE OF 'EM !

GET HIM ! HE'S MAKING A RUN FOR IT ! USE THE 918, YOU'LL CATCH HIM EASY !

 

Great parody .
Anyway, it sometimes could have deliciously describe the
Spirit of this thread . Talking exactly: 918 vs P1 part.

 

The 918 also beat the 12C (a very fast car) by 4.0 seconds at Le Mans (Bugatti) - 1:42.63 vs 1:46.63. Is that a track that would favour the P1?