Are 430 Scuderia asking prices really going up?

True dat.
The top asking prices that don't sell are of no value for a data point. The bottom prices for standard, good condition are a very interesting because they show the softness in the market

 

Ah, I see. So we should ignore the higher-priced cars in assessing the market, but not the lower-priced cars. Makes perfect sense!

 

There is an offer and there is a demand - therefore there is a real market.

Maybe it's interesting for you: following the key findings about the Swiss Scud market (observation period over the last two years): The offer was never so large as today (actual 25 Scuds, 16M's are excluded), the price range has been narrower (range between the cheapest and the most expensive car) and has moved down significantly (cheapest one with CHF 119'000.-, the most expensive one with CHF 169'900.-, in the average the market moved down about approx. CHF 20k), the average mileage has increased (between 7'900km (at the same time the most expensive car) and 51'000km (at the same time the cheapest one)) and is now at about 20k kilometers (plus approx. 8k km).

I guess it is allowed to say, the Swiss Scud market is definitely not going up, the opposite reflects the reality.

Interesting to recognize: actual there are 13 (including two new ones) 458 Speciale's in the market. The for the Scuderia alternative market is already existing or at least in development, the pressure on the Scuderia market will continue to increase.

 

Data. Nice. : )

 

It's interesting how different the markets are for these cars in different geographical areas. From what folks have said here, it sounds like scuds are significantly appreciating in the UK. This is just not the case anywhere else as far as I can tell. I would've guessed that, assuming similar economic conditions, the markets would be similar across international boundaries.

 

Here is some more data from the UK very different story compared to Swiss market:
13 cars for sale
Cheapest car under 5K miles and LHD: 130K GBP / 204K USD
Cheapest RHD car under 5K miles: 195K GBP / 305K GBP!
Cheapest LHD car under 10K miles: 127K GBP/ 200K USD
Cheapest RHD car under 10K miles: 185K GBP/ 290K USD

Link:
Used Ferrari 430 Scuderia cars for sale with PistonHeads

Not surprising that most people I spoke with who were looking about a year ago in the US and UK seem to have a story about "the one that got away".

If the figures mentioned above--Swiss market seems odd to me. Seems strange that so many scuds are for sale there vs the UK. IE 25 vs 13. Also very strange there are 13 Speciales for sale? I would like to see the link to that. That is more than in the US and the US must be a bigger market for Ferrari than Switzerland right? I would have thought that the UK is a much larger Ferrari market but not as sure about that..

Recaruser, would like to see a link to all those Speciales for sale in Switzerland. Can you please post? Still trying to get a feel for what colors look best on that car.

 

If you're in the UK, how difficult/expensive would it be to import and register a scud? Seems like it could be worth it given the price difference, assuming you'd be okay with LHD.

 

I am not sure. I think if it is from an EU country it is relatively straightforward--but I don't know myself. Not originally from the UK.

 

It's also possible to see Swiss Scud pricing as a Euro Hedge. Current ROE 1.2 but not so long ago it was 1.6. If it recovered even half way then Swiss Scuds would be exported out of CH pretty quick and price would increase. Ironic that Ferraris are one of the only (relative) bargains here!
My impression is that UK pricing reflects a demand squeeze on a relatively short supply of rhd cars; believe only 60 left in UK?
I also think some of the Swiss Scud offerings may a bit dodgy considering how long they have been for sale. Official dealer listed cars with warranty/history don't seem to hang around that long.

 

Yes, of course.
Actual Scuderia search: FERRARI F430 Occasion, Occasionen und Neuwagen - FERRARI F430 Gebrauchtwagen kaufen/verkaufen - AutoScout24
Actual Speciale search: FERRARI F458 Occasion, Occasionen und Neuwagen - FERRARI F458 Gebrauchtwagen kaufen/verkaufen - AutoScout24

Please don't forget: since many years Switzerland is the country with the most Ferraris per capita (I'm not sure about Monaco).

 

Wow, looks like Switzerland really is a unique market compared to UK or US. Speciale with less than 1K miles for 279CHF or 290 USD..Definitely better than you could do in the US or UK! Cheapest in the UK is about 376 USD. I have seen only a few for sale in the US. Usually well over 400K USD.

 

We cannot compare Ferrari US vs european market...US people seem more to buy cars and let them sit in a garage meanwhile if you look at average milage on European Ferrari they have 5 to 10 times higher milage or even more compared to US.

Switzerland is the country within Europe with the highest ratio of Ferrari cars pro citizens. And most cars are driven daily, it is very common to see F430 with > 50'000 km or older cars with > 70-80'000 km....something that looks like a sacrilege to most US drivers.

We loose money by driving our cars, you loose money by letting your cars sit in garages

 

I think you are stereotyping my friend. That's not necessarily true. It depends where you live and/ or what kind of weather conditions occur. I think it's hard to commute to a big city driving a Ferrari especially when public transportation is conveniently offered. On the other hand if you live in the suburbs and you don't have to drive to the city it might be easier to put more miles on you car. Not to mention that Americans work longer hours than Europeans. So the time to drive our toys is more limited.

 

I do work 6 days a week usually and have enough time to put 10K miles pro year on every Ferrari I had...it is simply a question on what you want to do with your car. How many threads written here of people worried about Fcars with 20K miles? looks funny to me....

What does weather condition mean? we live both in the same hemisphere and have same seasons. It snows a lot here during winter and rains a lot during summer, so there is no relation to seasons/weather. I simply do not think that Ferrari melt if they are used under pouring rain...but according to some questions posted by users on several thread in this forum, I belive most people do instead.

What is the point with public transports and not driving your car? As told I work probably as much as you claim many Americans do, and so are most of my friends owning Ferraris but we all drive our cars when we have time. I certainly do not use my Fcar to go to work but I put miles on my car because it's a car and not a bronze sculpture.

 

You're perfectly right about everything, except the weather. Driving in the rain or in the cold, when the tarmac is cold, makes no sense, because if you drive your Ferrari, you assume to drive it fast (especially if it is a Scud), which obviously isn't the case when it is cold outside or when it is raining. It is just no fun that way. And that's what obviously urges you to not drive your car at least 3 months in every year.

However, I really don't understand why people are afraid of cars with more mileage. I have always thought, that it is more worse for a car if it is not used and the engine is not working for let's say 8 months in a year, instead of regulary driving it.

My Scud is now having 45 000 miles on the clock and it really drives flawlessly for the moment. And I really don't think I will prefer a car with 2000 miles on the clock, because that will probably mean, that it has stayed immovably for the majority of its live and no liquids or oils have lubricated its mechanics or shock absorbers during that time.... Or it will probably mean, that it has been used only for very short drives, which also isn't perfect for the engine I think...

 

I think he has a point. U.S. owners barely drive their Ferraris in most cases. How else do you explain why 10 year old Ferraris often have less than 10k miles on the odometer? I really wish this was not the case as I would happily put more miles on my scud but always think twice because I know that more miles = reduced value.

 

For the record, whenever I get a chance to drive my scud, putting extra miles on it is the last thing that comes in my mind. However, I wish I had the luxury of having more chances to drive it.

 

Switzerland, the land of milk and honey!

Regarding one fact I'm a little bit confused: since a longer time we have a lot of 458 Italia's in the market, actual 78 (Italia and Spider). I note that this model is not able to push down the Scuderia prices significant. It seems the 458 Italia owner has effective different tastes than the Scuderia owner, the market has decided that these two models are definitelly different, I guess in the meanwhile we can talk about two different markets.

FERRARI F458 Occasion, Occasionen und Neuwagen - FERRARI F458 Gebrauchtwagen kaufen/verkaufen - AutoScout24

 

I think in general the same holds true in the US and the UK. Namely, that the scud (and stradale) prices seem to be driven by different buyers than the 458 Italia buyer. I think the general level of prices, though, in Switzerland is a bit lower. IE, the Speciale prices are lower than in the US or UK and so to are the Scud prices. Still getting over the fact that you can buy a Speciale so cheap in Switzerland compared to the US or UK.

However, despite overall level differences, it would seem you have the same general dynamic driving scud relative to italia and Stradale relative to Italia in the Swiss market.

 

Are prices for all Ferraris a lot cheaper in Switzerland? This has me thinking I should buy an 80s Fcar, like a 308 or Testarossa, in CH and import it into the U.S.

 

Basically yes, because here in Switzerland the offer of different used Ferrari models is huge and therefore highly attractive. I guess it would make sense to ask an import&export specialist who is also aware about all the market specifics around luxury cars.

Allow me a few words about the land of milk and honey: for so many years the economy in Switzerland is going very well, our industry is strong and stable. A small country in the middle of Europe, with a population of approx. 8 million inhabitants easy to manage, Switzerland is able to react extremely fast on external economic influences. Don't forget: not the big ones eats the small ones, but the fast ones the slow...

Yes, there are many super rich people (nice country with also a "flexible" tax systems) but, and I guess this is the key driver for our positive Ferrari market situation here, also an extremely well-funded middle class, maybe the purchasing power per capita in this class is benchmark for the row.

And yes, also here in Switzerland we have people with "a tendency" to buy a Ferrari as an investment object, I think that's a reasonable attitude. Hey, we are also the country of banks, to search the best profit from an investment is part of our DNA...

 

With the Pirelli Corsa's I agree - even in "hot" weather, when the tire is cold, they have no traction. Now with a solid street tire like a Michelin Pilot Sport, they can still be driven in the 32+F range. Less traction, but not deadly like the Corsas in the same conditions.

Rains too much here for me to avoid it. I had mud and water splashed all over my scud the other day after getting caught in a storm with 50mph winds!

That's awesome to hear about how many trouble free miles you have; I hope to have a similar experience.

 

Old tool boy mcgruff. Your scuderia is going down in value.
Just like all newer ferrari's

Anything you say differently, doesn't make it true.

You probably have a 170k car right now.
5 years from now, probably closer 90-100k.
Then it will bottom out, and slowly increase in value, if collectors find a interest in it.

quit telling tales.

 

Probably be even better if he could type properly
But I have heard he is the expert on scud prices