Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

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While I do understand that none of these are or will ever be real race cars McLaren did describe the P1 as "a race car for the road".

IMHO not being able to run one lap at GT3 speeds much less 10 makes that claim silly especially when we were told P1 was 6 seconds a lap faster than GT 3's at The Spanish GP track.

Race car engine compartments have a bit of engineering within.
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No.
First :
We don't have any confirmation that the TROFEO R for the P1 are a bespoke version. I my opinion they are not unless are marked MC/MC1 maybe the owner can clarify to us
Second :
In Anglesey P1 improved of 1,4s the lap time swtching from Corsa MC1 to Trofeo R
(Bespoke or not bespoke)
Third :
This thing about Trofeo R longevity should be verified correctly

The Trofeo R is a motorsport tire, well known in the MY12 edition that solved the problems of premature wear of early years of production.
People who seriously track his (setted up) car normally use it with about -3.0 deg Front camber and -2.5 deg for Rear Camber to make it work correctly, reaching the correct operating temparature and make it deliver the full perfomance.
I doubt the customer P1 tested in Laguna Seca had a proper alignment, more likeky a road aligment as the car comes out of the production line (Owner's manual values).
The owner can clarify to us.
I suppose that for this reason, also with the great advantage of the Trofeo R fitted on, the customer P1 was slower then 918 and it was observed a tires longevity in contrast with what observed by EVO.
The EVO press P1 had a proper alignment of course.

Luque

 

I like that picture, pleese keep uploading !
Grande Jim !

Luque

 

Yes, well said. This has been my opinion all along.

 

Depends on specification, can be 150kg lighter than a WP or 180kg lighter than a standard 918.

Since when is 4WS a big plus? There are 25 year-old Nissan GTRs with 4WS, but they dropped off the latest model because it's crap. I'm not really sure the ICE is better in the 918 either.

With the P1 you just get a car that's faster on track days and doesn't lose 130hp above 165mph, oh well.

Yes but both the P1 and 918 have huge brakes, making the e-braking completely redundant wrt braking torque at just about any speed and I think the fact the P1 put in 15 laps with only 0.3s driver variance speaks for itself as regards brake performance. The 918 needs the brake regen to get it round a single lap in HL mode. Then you have the weight on the tyres...

Yes but your argument is complete nonsense. Of course it could have a HL mode, all it needs to do is expend the charge faster in a way that's completely out of equilibrium with the regen, just as the 918 does.

We've see another obese AWD car come along that did really well in magazine tests on short slow laps but couldn't maintain that pace on track days and struggled on faster longer laps. What was it called again? Oh yes, the Nissan GTR.

 

Jethro Bovingdon of Evo has stated on twitter that they are bespoke.

Yeah the Trofeo Rs gave 1.4s over PZCS on Anglesey. MPSC2s gave 2.4s over MPSC+ on Jerez. MPSC+ is generally regarded as stickier than PZCS but these are off-the-shelf tyres. The bespoke PZCS on the P1 is absolutely nowhere near the MPSC2, it does however handle the wet better, with being treaded and all. You only have to look at the Autocar Wet Lap time to see how slick the 918's tyres are. It lost to the P1 in the wet despite being AWD, I think that says it all really.

Nope, Evo suffered more tyre wear because they ran them at cold street pressure. Let's not start these accusations of cheating shall we. Especially when we know the Trofeo R is going to give an advantage over PZCS naturally, or one might be tempted to ask how the 918 picked up a similar time delta at Laguna Seca from it's previous test, despite no changes whatsoever. 1:30.97 -> 1:29.XX.

 

Treynor's car was measured at 1547 with a full tank of gas, IIRC?

Sport Auto measured 1642 for the WS 918, thus it's actually less than 100 kg in some cars.

4WS is a huge plus, it increases turn in and reduces understeer... also high speed stability and turn radius are better.
Next GT-R will have 4WS.
Next gen Audi cars will all have (optional)4WS
Next gen Renault Laguna will also come with 4WS.

There is zero evidence of that, quite the contrary in fact
But the speed difference is small and will mostly depend on the driver.

No you don't, you generate power at braking...

It doesn't have a HL mode and that is the best argument that can be made, because McLaren could not implement a meaningful HL mode a'la 918 due to no brake regen and smaller battery.

If 918 is obese, considering the extra substance in the 918 vs P1 and the fact that real word weight difference can be less than 100 kg, the P1 is an oil tanker.

 

No I think you misunderstood. The best 60-130 time on the 918 was a 5.2 on HL mode. I put the wing down through the menu, something you won't have time to do in the race track while driving. That's why they resort to flipping the mode switch on the steering wheel.

HL mode feels like it gives you a lot more punch in a straight line.

 

Thanks. Testing in Aragon. Road and Track were here yesterday. Top Gear next week.

Tire tests next week with Dunlop. Then on to Geneva. Those going there please stop by.

FChatters in Spain welcome at Aragon but no photos till Geneva.

Best
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Mclaren swoosh on the brake disks? Surely not! Vade retro satana!

Jim, what's your order of preference of the 3 in discussion?

 

My Hommage to the P1.

They are all very cool. Personally I like the non hybrid version of 918 which is coming. Perhaps a La redesigned and re engineered without hybrid systems.

We shall see...
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Jim, any more info you are able to disclose on the non-hybrid 918? Will it look like a 918 or will have a completely different body? What is the approximate ETA?

 

No, it is a completely new car.
It will use either a flat 8 or a version of the next gen V8 engine from the upcoming Panamera.
According to a piece in the last issue of Autocar, 918 will also get a successor in about 5 years time.

 

Sorry but I can't talk about it but I do think it's going to come and I also think all of these would be a lot more interesting as non hybrids weighing a thousand pounds less.

Our road goal is 2400lb with 700 hp and 750 nm of torque which IMO is a lot more interesting than these new mega monsters.

Horses for courses.

 

Autocar or me???

We shall see.


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Did you mean to quote somebody else or was this some sort of mistake?

I make no assertions regarding Bluegrass, other than I prefer St. Augustine.

Edit: I apologize for the terrible attempt at botanical humor.

 

Ok, thanks...
But, did you had the chance to try Sport in the same discipline?
My presumption is, which will give more advantage: Sport's better aero or HL bigger power output...

 

Your garage is enviable, but the tone of your posts indicates a particularly risible contempt for the P1.

 

Butt dyno bets on the HL mode > Aero. I havnt tried with the vbox yet

 

Everybody keep tagging jim in posts! Every time he posts he shows another piece of his car!

 

Jim this picture of the cockpit, is this in race form? Or is this the standard interior for all trims? Will there be an option for niceties to be added in there? decorative CF alcantara, leather..... Bald eagle feathers?

 

Thanks Jim.
Yes, Mr. Dennis and Co. seem to say a lot of things when the day is long.

One can easily see how much more race focussed your car is vs. these hypercars - you can actually see (and get at) the engine in its compartment very easily. And obviously your car is substantially lighter than any of the three hypercars. Given their weight, I can't imagine how long the tires and brakes would last for the hypercars if they actually tried to run a race length at full tilt.

 

That's race interior.

Road is totally bespoke as desired.

 

Excuse me if I missed it, but do we have comparable on the road weights for all three?

Cheers
Alex

 

Interesting point on brakes. We can do the N 24 on one set of pads.