Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

It's been long established and documented that Ferrari has done and will do everything in its power to throw reviews and tests. Running non-oem tires made to look oem, bringing different cars to the same event for different tests, passing off tuned cars as stock, etc. There is a Chris Harris article and plenty of others that are easily googleable.

If you don't want to believe that, that's fine, but it is naive.

 

Well done, I've been making that point for some time.

This is the fastest UK road legal production car lap:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFcanpNarEg

This is the only car 10s faster:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkwbb0mPe58

The point you're missing is that this isn't an attempt at deceit, it's just someone who hasn't researched their facts properly. As a lie it was never believable and, even in the worst light possible, Ron Dennis is too clever to deliberately spout a lie that nobody would believe anyway.

McLaren didn't blame treynor for the loss at Laguna Seca did they? Nope. They just want a level playing field. With factory cars, you can almost guarantee one of the teams (who shall remain nameless) will cheat, so the temptation is to cheat too, except how much do you cheat by? It all gets stupid. But with customer cars, you have the customers as verification that it's the genuine article being tested.

 

Sorry guys, I HAD to feed the troll as I have tons of leftovers from a big feast celebrating the 918's lost to the P1 in the race to the most cupholders.

Reason for not using one of the build in mode? Cause McLaren forgot to put one in their car? Then I guess to make a even playing field both cars should run in EV mode only.

And the 918 will still starts at P1. Oops. Did I say the P1 will start in P2? But The P1 wears PZeros, so one can think of it as a P0 which is 1 number before P1.

Tires. Hmm. 918 wear Cup2s with a 180 tread wear. The cheater slicks on the P1, i.e. Trofeo R has a rating of 60, wonder who wears out the tires faster. Hell, the P1 might have to go in for tires before the tank runs dry. Even more pitstops. With it stopping so many times in a race, it might as well just park it in there, cause it looks the best sitting still.

Last I check, the McLaren Formula 1 team sucks pretty bad, their newest car even try to kill Alonso. Plus, 918s and P1s are sports cars. Gee I wonder which company has a better sports car racing record? How many Le Mans did McLaren win again? In case you didn't know, the score is 16 to 1 in Porsche's favour for Overall Le Mans wins.

BTW, Le Mans cars have to last 24hrs, not the under 120mins kiddie race in F1. Just like you didn't like the 1 lap race for speed, and prefered a 3 lapper, now I raise you a 24hr race over your 2hr race. Don't be scared, Mulsanne straight was built for the P1's high end. But not sure how the brakes on the P1 might hold up in the long run as it needs to do 100% of the braking while the 918 enjoys brake regen and save the brakes.

Actually, the real comedy would be to see the P1 stranded on a track running out of gas while the 918 do it's best impression of Energizer Bunny and keep going and going and going and going and going around the P1. Totally not in the same class.

 

I didn't know that, thanks. Not to mention the enzo that did the ring time was also a customer car with a broken rear suspension, too.

 

I refer you sir to my post above yours.

PS: CH had a problem with the firm's attitude. He never said that they were in fact cheating! I don't like Harris anyway though...

 

I'm yet to see that claim?

Are you sure it wasn't something like, "almost match a GT3 car, on some tracks"?

 

Ok first of all, the Alonso joke was funny, but a low blow. Next, I'm glad that you brought up the 24 hr race because by my calculations, the porsche would have a range of 390-432 miles and the P1 would have a range of 300 miles. So the P1 would have to stop more and the 918 could probably lap at least two laps more than the p1 could, so the porsche still wins there.

 

There was the incident with the 599, where the tyres disintegrated after the track test.

 

Right and what happens over 20 laps on a track day? HL mode is not representative of true sustainable pace.

It would get P1 from a P1 on any F1 GP circuit, that's for sure, even got its ass kicked on Anglesey Coastal.

Yeah, and PZCS has a wear rating of 60 too, but do they have the same wear rate as Trofeo Rs. No. Why? Because tread wear ratings are BS. Next point - since when does tread wear = grip.

PZCS - 89%
Pirelli PZero Corsa System | the Pirelli PZero Corsa System reviewed and rated - TyreReviews

MPSC2 - 100%
Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 | the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 reviewed and rated - TyreReviews

Trofeo R - 100%
Pirelli P Zero Trofeo | the Pirelli P Zero Trofeo reviewed and rated - TyreReviews

Your theories have already been proven wrong by users.

Lapping a P1 at Laguna Seca - 6speedonline.com Forums

"I can't say as I've never run Corsas on the P1. The Trofeos looked only mildly worn after 20 laps at Laguna and I expect to run several more sessions on them, so my experience was clearly different from the poster cited above."

How many CanAm wins has Porsche had? 5-2 Mclaren. F1 wins? 8-0 McLaren. No they are not sports cars, they a hypercars. 911s and Mazda MX-5s are a sportscars.

And does any track day goer race their car for 24 hours? They might get a bit tired surely. And really, it's track days we're talking about for these cars. Hence more relevant than 1 lap, or 24 hours.

I also seem to remember early 991 GT3s lasting much less than 24 hours of hard driving before catching fire.

Except it won't, because as soon as the HL mode runs out, the P1 will quickly pull out enough time for a pit stop and very quickly on a GP track, which would be a complete comedy to watch. By lap 2-3 on a GP track, it would be like watching an SP9 GT3 car (918) against an F1 car (P1).

 

LOL, I didn't even realise the ranges were that close, in that case the 918 definitely loses. Jeez, how many seconds do you pull out after 100+ laps, even on Laguna Seca at 0.5s a lap. On Spa the P1 would have lapped the 918 twice in that time.

 

Not even close for your numbers. You don't use the published fuel economy numbers to calculate.

At race pace the throttle is wide open and un and down the rev range, so the consumption will be in the single digit mpg.

Those LMP race cars do 12-14 laps a tank, that's averaged out to be around 110 miles per 18 gallon tank of gas. 6mpg, far cry from government numbers.

The P1 is further handicapped by it's turbo engine. When on boost, the engine runs richer than normal and use the extra fuel to cool the charge, further wasting fuel on top of the recharging function.

 

So in the end, the 918 would still be able to go further than the p1 before having to fuel up, right?

 

Why only 20 laps? Is it because the P1 can only last 20 laps before it will break down?

Hot Lap mode is no different than Launch Control on modern cars, so should both cars do another acceleration run with LC off then? So LC starts are not a true representative of a car's acceleration pace then? If a car has a feature, then it's perfectly alright to use it, it's not like is an aftermarket mod. It's perfectly acceptable to switch fuel/engine maps on race cars, so what's the big deal? What's next? F1 cars or any other race cars are not allowed to switch maps in the middle of the race now?

Hot Lap mode is easier and quicker to engage than LC btw.

You keep thinking of something to negates the P1's deficiency.

For the nth time, the 918 won the Head 2 Head at Anglesey fair and square. The 918 is not invited for the P1 re-run, you can't lose something that you are not present.

Using your logic, can I say the P1 got it's ass kicked this morning on my morning drive in my 918? I did a personal best between point A to point B. It's not even close, the P1 lost by a century worth of seconds.

Hmm, you have confused tread wear rating vs grip. Tread wear rating means how long a tire last, not how grippy it is. You might want to check the dictionary for their meanings first.

2 tires can have the same level of grip but with a different tread wear rating.

Seriously CanAm? In that case how about Paris Dakar Rally then? 1-0. Using your logic, the p1 and the 918 are not F1 cars, so F1 results are thrown out and doesn't count.

As for the definition of sports car straight from Merriam Webster:

a low small usually 2-passenger automobile designed for quick response, easy maneuverability, and high-speed driving


Seems like both the P1 and the 918 fits that description perfectly. A hypercar is still a sports car.

You are not doing track day comparison as you are not on a track right now, you are doing internet bench racing from your computer through a message board. Big difference.

Anyway, I like 24hr comparisons, I like using Hot Lap mode, I like measuring from standing starts and only until 120mph. I also like comparing cupholders. AND the number of exhaust pipes and whether they point up or not. Just like you want 3 laps comparison without using Hot Lap AND no standing start AND no this and no that AND with the P1 on this and on that condition.

Actually, I think I like comparing both cars on the ice surface of a frozen lake way up in Iceland. From a standing start. Running 24hrs. And the concession to you will be the 918 will not use Hot Lap mode AND let the P1 go into Race mode. However, the winner will not be the fastest car but the car that can shoot exhaust gas up into the sky while having the quickest 0-100. There, the P1 has no chance. give it up.

"quickly pull out enough time", do you mean trying to catch up first? From launch the P1 will be eating dust, and with both cars equally match in performance the passing will not be around corners, and at exit the torque and traction advantage from the 918 will let it stretch the distance on the next straight, P1 will catch up if the straight is a km long or something, but then again by that time it will be time to brake and starts all over again. The P1 might also run out of brakes and go straight for the collection area.

Who is gonna push the P1 into the pits first when it stopped in the middle of the track? Should the 918 tow it there?

You are right, it's like watching an SP9 GT3 car (P1) against an F1 car (918).

 

Theoretically yes. The 918 might have the bigger engine on paper, but with the extra fuel injected a turbo-ed engine will consume fuel more like an engine at least 50% bigger.

From memory the P1 has a 72 litre tank, while the 918 has a 70 litre one, about 1/2 gallon difference.

 

If hot lap mode isn't usable, then neither is race mode.

 

Btw this is O/T, but how do you separate quotes and reply to individual quotes from a post like in 16039?

 

No way a P1 would ever beat a 918 around a racetrack. One lap or 10 laps. At that horsepower level AWD is an ADVANTAGE. Not a disadvatage

 

Not to talk about the fact that for being even vaguely competitive the P1 would have to be on Pirellis which would need changing every two laps. And would waste more energy to fill up the turbo lag and to simulate passively a lim slip diff by braking the rear wheels all the time.

Ferrari's E-diff actually recharges the batteries instead

It's just a worse design all round.

 

The problem with the P1 is that they utilized a compromised chassis to begin with (MP4-12C) and tried to make it competitive in the ultra hypercar category. It would be like Audi trying to make an R8 chassis competitive in the LMP class.
Just doesn't work

 

It could have worked better if they spent more money on it. But then again if they had more money to spend they would have probably started with a completely different platform

Same goes for R Dennis' boasting. It doesn't look good now but probably was the only way it could have sold the even fewer than expected 375 units IMO

 

True and the brutal bottom line.

The fact they didn't want to go up against a 918 on a track they developed their P1 on says everything that needs to be said.

 

A person with the means to write a $1mil check for a car still has to deal with the same things that a person with only the means for $30k car. There is ego, denial, there are hurt feelings when friends or colleagues comment this way or that. As it is said, we vote with our wallets. You are a complete and total liar if you claim 'your' car coming in 2nd (after the massive promises and hype) doesn't hurt you at least a little bit, and that your 'seat of the pants perception' is completely wrong when it comes to outright performance. 'Your' car company keeps ducking the competition, keeps making excuses as to why this/that would not be representative of true capabilities. When they courted you and your $1mil+ they never indicated such kind of company attitude, they said all the right things, even got you to 'agree' that it's better for both customer and Mac to cut production from 500 to 375. Chief and test ace Chris Goodwin whispered lovely things in your ear..."a engine with a response on par or better than that best NA V12's, response matched only by F1 car, we have 'achieved' a NS time in the 6:30's (note 'achieved' not properly defined as simulator, compiled sectors, etc), the aroma from "600kg of downforce" "RACE mode" "faster than a GT3 class racer" all smelled sweet and airy as you plumped down 1mil. One of you, and you know who you are, took it all to heart, ate it ALL up, and even convinced yourself that you would put 918 in its place, with you yourself behind the wheel! And since that didn't even come close to happening...a giant steaming pile of dung has been rolling since (picture the ridiculously strong for its weight Dung Beetle pushing a giant ball of crap around by its horns). Excuses, in-depth analysis of telemetry, come flooding. Universal truths must be re-written to 'explain' why/how P1 got Spanked again.

...and then there's 'LMFAO'. My my. Odd feller. Taking it upon himself/herself to burn a candle for P1 and ye faithful. Without a doubt the most massivest Troll I've ever come across on the intuhnet. Yeah, I'm not afraid to say it again...LMFAO is a dumb#$^@. Trolling with outrageous antics. Here I thought there were forum rules against that. No, it's not 'debate'. I has never been a debate. It has simply been 'bait' with bizarreness on the offensiveness.

 

Obviously a troll, LMFAO has the proper internet handle...he probably does LMFAO every time he posts his rubbish - he likely doesn't take himself seriously. But I take it in stride, it doesn't bother me - how can it? In this world of terrorist attacks and ebola, an argument about which $1 million car is faster ranks pretty low on day to day concerns.

 

Yes. 918 is flat out the better car (actually, THE car that Mac had hoped to build. A stellar machine even when motionless in the garage being wiped by microfiber, a phenomenal car even when cruising around at 25mph in town, and a machine that clearly can walk the walk at race tracks of all kinds). Mac has turned trillion miles on their 'home'/TG track, and after seeing the Porsche educate them this past year as to how resolute it is, they know darn well what's going to happen.

 

That's about as far from the truth as possible.

The chassis is competitive in the hypercar market. Are you really saying the P1 can't compete when it's within 10ths of a second from the 918 and probably LF?

Sorry, that's a dumb statement. If anything, it shows just how amazing the 12C chassis is. You should be asking why the 918 and LF's chassis is only slightly better than the 12C...