Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

You might be the biggest anti-McLaren fanboy on here. Continuing with nonsense proved wrong by an LF owner of all things. I'd say you're on the level as LMFAO.

 

He takes himself seriously enough to put in plenty of work digging up information (whether that be mis-information, useless information, persistent constipation, it's all there), arranging his 'thoughts' in Troll format, puts in work preparing his defense every time out. He clearly feels enough and is compelled enough to make sure P1 is 'properly represented'. He obviously gets off on it, and spends a good deal of effort elsewhere using different handles there. I tend to think this is more than just simple shts and giggles for him. And I agree with you, this is not a real life concern and disappears from mind the moment I log out. It's just great intuhnet drama.

 

I think this thread goes along way to support my view that supercars/hypercars are a waste of time. We cannot even conclude which is better.

Oh how I wish these 3 would return to the race track proper and settle this debate with a sportscar world championship win!
Pete

 

Errr...chassis and systems integration on 918 is not just 'slightly' better. It is better by a good margin, allowing the machine to completely gobsmack ye faithful. If by being 'competitive' you mean losing every battle (except the do-over where Germany wasn't invited back to even tweak tire pressures and alignments). Sure it is. But it wasn't built to be 'competitive' and find moral victory in being within 'tenths of a second. It was meant to be much apart from the competition. To win anytime, anywhere. Ya gotta put the deltas in context. Nearly 1 second at LS, over 1 second at Mira (don't even start with the 'damp' excuse), more than comfortably at Anglesey, it's all possible because of a chassis and drivetrain combo that is a tad more than 'slightly' better. The packaging and CoG for 918 is hugely impressive. The margins between hypercars are super tight. Manufacturers are punching harder than ever. Each team bringing their A game. When a chassis in 'all conquering, all out destroyer RACE mode' rolling on R compounds is shaded by a whole second, I don't think 'slightly' is the right word. Is it a heck of a chassis? Yes it is. Did Mac get a boatload of performance out of it? Absolutely. But the difference between a bespoke design vs a jerry rigged one is pretty clear. Coming up next, 918 in track only setup 3 inch ride height, R compound shoes, appropriated kinematics. You'll really see how far apart the chassis' are.

 

scrape away the excess and it's pretty clear 'which is better'.

 

I'm actually curious to know just how much of their laptimes is down to power. On the straights these cars absolutely destroy the normal exotics which kind of makes you wonder how much of a 2-3s lap advantage is in a high speed straight.

That video I posted showed how a P1 blew the doors off a Z07 in the straights. Probably a couple seconds on the Corvette in that spot alone.

 

LaFerrari hands down. Won't even matter if it's slower than a 12C. I will take one over the P1 in a heart beat.

2nd on my list is the 918 which I already have.

3rd would be a 12C, which i dearly missed and it is 80% of a P1 at 1/4 of the price.

 

A top fuel dragster will blew my doors off on a straight, but I am pretty sure I will beat it on a lap on anything even in my FF. Not counting the F12 and the 918. Hell, I will even have a fighting chance in my G63.

Straight away speed means absolutely nothing.

 

Proper question is, if the 12C is already such a great platform, why didn't McLaren spend a wee bit more and develop a proper bespoke platform for their halo car and silence the critics? Once an for all instead of taking **** left right and centre every second.

Oh wait, cause McLaren is short on money and needed to scam 375 buyers to stock up on cash.

 

What we need is a GT1 race series brought back again. We need a rich guy to pay WEC/ACO to bring it back.

 

Watched Top Gear yesterday. Was very childish of Mclaren and Ferrari to come up with silly terms just to go head to head on same track on the same day. Looks like Porsche folks did't give a sh!!tt and was just enjoying watching how Ferrari and Mclaren were arguing.

On the side note, I've never seen a smile so wide on James May. He generally dislikes 'too powerful cars' and always was more practical between Jeremy and Richard. Noticed that he never passed a single negative remark on the LAF. Only good stuff. Oh well..

 

Watched Top Gear yesterday. Was very childish of Mclaren and Ferrari to come up with silly terms just to go head to head on same track on the same day. Looks like Porsche folks did't give a sh!!tt and was just enjoying watching how Ferrari and Mclaren were arguing.

On the side note, I've never seen a smile so wide on James May. He generally dislikes 'too powerful cars' and always was more practical between Jeremy and Richard. Noticed that he never passed a single negative remark on the LAF. Only good stuff. Oh well..

 

I don't think porsche is coming out with a track only 918? Isn't that what the weissach is? Unless you mean track specific tires?

 

[size=+4]Amen[/size]

Pete

 

In fairness they did that already a while ago

Porsche AG: Porsche 918 RSR ? racing laboratory with even higher-performance hybrid drive - Newsroom & Press | Porsche

 

This is a joke, right? Here is the difference power makes in lap times. How many seconds do you think the P1 put on the Z07 at full throttle in just this one segment? How many seconds do you think a 918 puts a GT3 in the straights? These cars aren't top fuel dragsters, they are cars that also have cutting edge electronics, suspensions, tires, etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy6rRgMCD0w&feature=youtu.be

Straight line gains in these cars are absolutely massive when they are stuck in road spec. HP isn't everything, but when everything else on your car is of the same generation, I think you'll be surprised just how much of a lap time is sheer power.

 

How is that anything but a complement for McLaren? Porsche and Ferrari have more or less unlimited budgets and resources, yet the brand new company with 1 road car under the belt can split hairs on the track with their halo cars.

How exactly did McLaren scam anyone?

 

Glad you see the irony.

And I am going reply to both your posts in 1 post.

HP isn't everything and straight line speed gain isn't everything either.

The point was that don't write off the 918 simply because it has like 16HP less than the P1 and weights an extra 2-300lbs.

918 spent more time around 887HP than the P1 at 903HP. P1 is only part time doing 903HP, the e-motor is only chipping in every now and then. it is really a 727HP with a shot of 176HP nitrous part time. McLaren could have tuned the P1 to be at 903HP but it is confined by the limited battery capacity,

With the 918 hybrid graphics, I can clearly see when the front/rear motor is working towards motivating the car, something that's missing in the P1. That's something McLaren is hiding, owners will never know WHEN the car is in full battery drain mode hence putting down 903HP.

There was a test not long ago with each car doing in gear acceleration, that clearly illustrated the turbo lag and inadequate e-motor assist in the P1, you did dismissed it as not relevance simply because it's not what/how people drives, i.e. lugging along in 7th gear where 4th or 3rd should be called for. It is actually a very valid test of a drivetrain's flexibility and the engine output at each rpm range and the P1 clearly lost that one despite the higher published HP figures.

I liked McLaren, I dearly missed my 12C, but I am not blindly drinking the KoolAids from Ron Dennis. I have a brain and I used it to compute both car's performance and that's why I picked the 918 over the P1.

As for the scamming part, buyers of the P1 pretty much based their purchase on the promises of Ron Dennis' big speech, which turned out to be a bunch of BS when rubber meets asphalt. If that's not a scam, I am not sure what is.

But as you said before, the P1, aka the 12C platform performs beyond expectations, within spitting distances of bespoke design cars. It should have been a point for celebrations if not for what Ron said. It was very unfortunate that Ron spoke with empty words when he was promoting the sales of the P1.

 

To refresh everyone's memory...

Interesting statistics in 7th gear acceleration (from Autocar):

918 P1
50-70mph 2.2s 6.0s
60-80mph 2.3s 6.2s
70-90mph 2.5s 6.5s
80-100mph 2.8s 6.9s
90-110mph 3.2s 7.5s

 

Flip! Thats a heavy-duty difference.

 

You're just as big of a fanboy as LMFAO because you make the most obscure and unproven points, not to mention deliberately leave things out which would harm your arguments, for what very much seems like nothing more than a way to validate your purchase.

1. You claim the P1 doesn't make 903hp under full throttle at the peak torque RPM because... wait for it... wait for it...

McLaren doesn't show you a graph. Do you realize how dumb this is? You have absolutely no proof of this, yet you assume it's true because you want it to be. You want to it be because you bought a 918 and feel the need to justify your purchase more.

2. You then go on to make an equally stupid claim that the 918 spends more time at 887hp than the P1 at 903hp, which doesn't even make sense. It's not an on/off switch. Engines don't magically make full power at all RPMs.

Even if you had some real proof that the P1 didn't have 903hp a lot of the time, it's hilarious how you fail to mention that the 918 decouples the front motor after a certain RPM and therefore isn't even capable of making 887hp. Why didn't you mention this? Because then your argument about the P1 being a shot of nitrous doesn't make sense and you need to validate your purchase more.

3. How does an in-gear 7th speed pull prove anything about max power output? Again, I'm not sure if you know anything about torque, rpm, and hp because you seem to be wondering why the P1 didn't win from 7th gear at some low-rpm. Did you expect the P1 to have max power at 2000 rpm just because it has an e-motor? Are you aware that the 918 doesn't have 887hp at 2000 rpm either? It probably has more power than a P1 given how much more torque it has, but who said it didn't?

4. Assuming you're right about everything, all it does is make the rest of the P1 even better. You agree that it's within spitting distance to the 918, yet now it does so with even less power available.

We get it: You bought an 918 and it's quicker than the P1. Just about everyone knows this. Yes, McLaren's CEO said it would be a few tenths quicker on each track than it actually was.

No offense Whoopsy, but you think you come off a lot more modest than you really do. If you're so insecure about owning $1M car, why don't you stop buying them? It will save you the headache of constantly trying to find absurd ways to validate your purchase.

 

What does this have to do with the claimed power output of the P1? I agree that the torque available to the 918 is vastly better at low RPMs than the P1, but who said it wasn't? Showing the turbos aren't spooled or don't spool quickly enough from a low rpm in 7th gear isn't exactly anything new.

Do you expect 903hp from 7th @ 2000 rpm?

 

Great post Whoopsy, indeed why didn't they.... BTW, either they will make the P1 GTr, which will be pointless ala FXX, XX and all the other race cars that cant be raced AND they will sell them with the stipulation that buyers CANNOT race them or even track them against other cars OR they could just spend the 15 months and design a new platform that will then be used in the MP4-12c mark 2. At a point all 3 are amazing cars and the endless discussion does get a little pointless AND we must always remember that the difference between them is always going to be small to the point where any are going to satisfy all but the most pedantic. What does seem to stink though are the McLifers that seem to take any criticism, even the mildest one's and get personally offended. After all you never see anyone from porschelife (is there such a thing?) posting stuff here that they read on their forum..............

Where this thread gets really stupid when some posters start the pissing match of how many CanAm titles. Hell I am a proud Kiwi and I love what Bruce, Denny and Chris did for NZ motorsport but Ron Dennis is a tool and jumped the shark with the P1. Porsche, Penske and Mark Donohue did a number in the Can-Am series with one of the greatest cars ever, the 1300bhp 917/30, killing McLaren AND Can-Am in the process.

 

Why does no one ever mention the 300 plus pounds feet torque advantage the 918 has and it's instant availability ?
Odd

 

Why does no one ever mention the 300 plus pounds feet torque advantage the 918 has and it's instant availability ?
Odd