Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

He's struggling to make some sort of point.

Or perhaps after such a long thread, struggling to find anything more to say at all?

 

Leaving Facebook...

 

I can only go by what he said, I can't infer that he didn't mean what he said - I am not in his head. He also said that he himself beat the top gear test track time record by 10 seconds, did he not mean it? Then why say it?

I have no problem with the P1 - it is a fantastic car that belongs in the same category as the 918 and LaFerrari. It has its strengths and weaknesses compared to the other two just as they do. And as a car enthusiast, I am glad there are three hypercars to salivate over, not just one.

The problem I have is the outrageous claims that he made and how many excuses are flowing when the car doesn't meet these claims. What I would like to see from Ron is a retraction, maybe saying that he was caught up in the moment at the unveiling, and that the P1 is the fastest McLaren production car ever (true) just as Porsche said at the 918 introduction that it was the fastest production Porsche ever (also true).

I do not begrudge anyone for picking a P1 over a 918 or LaFerrari - there are many reasons for picking one over another. I think if Ron came out and backtracked a little from his previous statements, people would likely calm down a bit.

 

Good points.

Part of the problem/And outgrowth of this: Many P1 owners, and McLaren fans, apparently believed what Ron Dennis said. And now that they cast their stones or purchased their cars upon his promises, they are loathe to back away from them (or believe in any flaws or defeats of the vehicle), regardless why.

Of course, many of these same people only listened to specs and hoopla coming from McLaren, thus relegated the 918 to last place (despite Porsche historically doing things the quiet way). And this is part of the reasons, why many of them can't let this subject die (what, 800+ pages now), no matter how humiliating the defeat, along with McLaren's guard dog internet defense team.

 

Pretty much that exactly, despite of your sarcasm. Even on a track that doesn't suit the P1, the P1 wins over 4 laps or more because the Porsche runs out of battery.

Optimised 918 is slow as hell after HL mode runs dry anyway. Your car is a big fail. Whilst in HL = competitive, afterwards = slow. Therefore slow car, fat Porsche is slow, no arguing with that, fat Porsche is slow in the long run.

 

So you really believed that he meant the P1 would be the fastest car mankind will ever build? Come on now. That's on you if that's what you thought he meant.

I don't really see why non-buyers care so much about not quite living up to the hype. Whoopsy seems to think he scammed people by making such claims, yet Whoopsy forgets that everyone who bought one had the chance to drive it on the track before buying it. No one who bought one has any right to be disappointed because the policy was try before you buy. Why does the car being a few tenths slower in the hands of a pro change anything? If you bought the car purely based on being better than everyone else, you're a bit of a loser IMO and your self-esteem needs more work than your driving abilities. Besides, the cars aren't even that fast on the track. If you got $1M to burn, why not buy a real track car? A 500hp BMW Z4 GT3 puts like 30s on the 918 on the NR and costs a fraction of it.

The car is loved by everyone who bought it from what I can tell and if it's not, they can easily sell for more than they paid. Sour grapes seems to come mainly from people who don't matter in the scope of things.

 

Oh please shut up already! The 918 doesn't run out of battery. It depletes the battery to the point that it not longer will provide hot lap levels of performance and switches to a mode with more aggressive battery replenishing. It does this on the fly. So it's not like you (a) ever completely run out of battery or (b) can't keep driving it in a high-performance way. If you're way ahead of the P1 at this point you might stay there and win the race. Or, you might not. But please stop spreading simplistic mis-information. Anyone whose driven the car on a track should know this and it's consider with Porsche's documentation on the car.

The P1 does a similar thing in e-mode - eventually the battery gets down far enough that it fires up the gas engine and recharges it or runs in a gas-engine mode. The P1 never gets to a zero-battery situation either.

 

Sorry, but facts say, 1.5s slower on 3rd lap for 918, and P1 no more than 0.3s slower on 15th lap. That's the actual telemetry from the Laguna Seca test.

 

why is that relevant here? You have your own topic for any updates on your car

 

Seriously? You think he literally said, or implied, his company would NEVER build a better car than P1? Well if he was building that car he should have called it the "TheMcLaren". Because it would be the ultimate McLaren. So the McLaren TheMcLaren would be the be-all end-all McLaren and they'd just give up trying to make better cars in the future because they've already names their car the ultimate car of their brand. Why would one of the manufacturers ever boast so much by calling their car "ThePorsche" or "TheMcLaren" or even "TheFerrari"?

 

My point exactly. He did say these things - its on video, watch the clip from 8:20 to about 9:20

Ron Dennis Claims Top Gear Track Record, Nürburgring Lap Record For P1: Video

I obviously don't believe the stuff he said, but he made the claims, not me. Mark, I am glad that you spent a lot of time in each of the hypercars before making your decision to buy the P1 - it is obvious that you took the time to evaluate the cars before choosing the P1. And like I said it is a fantastic car. You clearly didn't buy it because of what Mr. Dennis said. I can easily see that some people would have bought it sight unseen based on these claims.

I just think when people of his stature (head of the company, not just some internet troll) make outlandish claims they need to be called out on it.

 

My bad, it was the wrong unit used, shouldn't have use the HP rating but the torque rating. HP is just the product of rpm times torque at each point on the rpm range and thought someone would be clever enough to infer that.

The 918 spent more time using it's rated torque figures than the P1 with theirs.

Yes the front motor disconnect after 265km/hr and loses the torque help there, but how long does a car spent above 265km/hr vs spent below that? Even on a track say COTA or Laguna Seca? Can't be more than a few seconds a lap, so the drop off is practically negligible.

The P1 is primary driven by the gas engine, and it's 531ft-lb of torque, with the helper shot of 192lb-ft from the e-motor, which only engages at full throttle. At full throttle at max torque rpm, yes, it is putting down the whole 722-723ft-ft. But at the same rpm with less than a full throttle, say 50%, it is not putting down 722/2=361ft-lb, it is putting down 531/2=265-266ft-lb as the e-motor is not engaged.

The 918 operates differently, the 389ft-lb of peak torque from the engine is supplemented by both the e-motors practically full time until 265km/hr, so below that speed the 440ft-lb or so electric torque is always there to add to the 389ft-lb, at 50% output the number will be 195+220=415ft-lb. Above 265km/hr the 184ft-lb from the front motor is gone so the number will be 195+128=333ft-lb.

In gear acceleration from low rpm, especially 7th gear, actually tells you a lot about the systems' output flexibility and characteristics. There are no gear ratios to mask the output deficiency. The tall ratio forces the system to display it's max output for all to see.

McLaren claimed their e-motor do torque fill to eliminate the turbo lag from their big turbos, the in gear times proved otherwise.

You can call me names or diss me or whatever, I don't mind, you just have no idea how much research I have done and how many insiders I have talked to and discuss between the 2 cars that gave me the conclusion to buy the 918 instead of the P1. I could have had both but after my research I have decided the P1 is the one to let go. I didn't take either sides' PR smoke screen on face value.

I am not the only one that came to this conclusion either, wtdoom also did his own research and like me he kept the 918 and forgo the P1.

Unlike other 'fanboy' on the internet that picks a side, I still like McLaren cars, I still want one in the future, it's just that I see the P1 for what it is and I didn't buy it, it is not what it was billed to be and not up to my own personal standard. It is still a fantastic performance car, there is no doubt owners are very satisfied driving theirs, and they couldn't give a **** about it not being the fastest.

 

such a heated topic can't imagine what will happen in few months.

 

Don't discourage him! I wake up everyday looking forward to reading his BS

 

Jim...keep posting! Your comments on any car related topic and news on your car are always relevant. Excited about the Friday reveal...

 

That is completely incorrect. The P1's e-motor does not require full throttle to engage.

Did you just make that up out of thin air?

 

Oh give me a break. You're as much of a Porsche fanboy as anyone else on here. Maybe even worse because, just in the one post above, you made up phony facts (e-motor only works at full throttle), drew ridiculously incorrect conclusions (in-gear times indicate torque fill doesn't happen on P1) and used simplified funny math (your crazy torque calculations) to try make it sound you've done "research" or actually understand how these things work. In that respect you're not much better than LMFAO.

I love that you "see the P1 for what it is" yet don't you drive a 12 cylinder Ferrari whose engine design is something like 10 years old? This is NOT a criticism of Ferrari or that engine. I have an FF (that I absolutely LOVE) with that same engine and it's awesome. But you rail against McLaren for this same sort thing as if it's some kind of horrible secret problem they're using to scam buyers just like a "fanboy".

 

Mark,
Just curious, if the e-motor on the P1 is engaged at part throttle and low rpm (as indicated on their presentation file, which I have a copy of), then how do you explain the extremely slow acceleration in 7th gear going from 50 to 120mph (in 20mph increment)? Clearly when Autocar did their acceleration test, they were doing each of the in-gear acceleration at full throttle.

I mean, the acceleration difference between the 918 and P1 in top gear is so big that one is forced to wonder if the e-motor in the P1 is on at all (i.e. to "eliminate turbo lag")? Granted the 918 has a bigger battery, but surely, the difference can't be that big if the P1's e-motor is boosting 100%?

 

What are we going to talk about in a few months if these two or three don't go back to battle? Are porsche going to go back to the ring with a fully optimized car and track tires and get a better time? Are Mac finally going to release their time? Are ferrari finally going to allow someone to test all three?

 

Stay tuned for the next episode of All my Children

This has such serious overtones of a soap opera now hahah

I love all three of the cars but im growing extremely wary of two of their fanbases. Mclaren guys are making some ridiculous claims off of opinions and circumstancial evidence (which wont hold up in court) while the porsche guys are constantly attacking for really no reason other then to feed the troll. People, please stop feeding the troll.

I truely feel like wed have some first hand driving accounts of laferrari from owners on this board if it werent for the constant peacocking and chest thumping and downright petty arguing that goes on in this thread. I invite any laferrari owner to share his/her experiences with us to at least change the pace that has gotten so so hostile recently around here.......or at the minimum give them some new material to bicker about instead of the extremely tired tire, weight, torque, location, and ron arguments.

 

that's a really good question. does anybody know the answer to this? i'm guessing it might have something to do with the fact that the P1s electric motor is directly connected to the drivetrain. So through the 3 clutches and all that, all of it's power goes through the seven speed gear box? is that right? that would mean it would have to be in the right gear to use its power? unlike the 918 which in a seventh gear acceleration test would have the front electric motor at least not in seventh gear? (as it only has two) so it would have more power. is that right? I hope that someone can answer that. of course most mclaren users would say just put it in the right gear (or if you can't be arsed put it in automatic and let the car do it for you) . Anyway I'm really looking forward to actually seeing some telemetry from the motor trend test - and hearing what they actually thought of the cars. any test like that is good news and I hope we get more tests like that with customer cars. perhaps maybe even the ferrari might be able to join in as well

 

Jackie Chan vs 918:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7jdqX1GLM4

 

its winter now.

a lot more is coming may/june time.

ferrari won't be able to prevent laferrari track tests forever.

amus will get crack at laferrari and p1.

 

What is your purpose?