Alfa 4C - "Without The Heart We Would Be Mere Machines"

Boxerman- I'd love to see Alfa come back and do well. It would be great to have sporty, daily driver sedan that was engaging and not break the bank expensive and not the same VW platform with nicer interior (I've played the Audi game-I'm sure I'll offend some but I got VW quality with a nicer service adviser and nicer service waiting area for 50% more money.

In someways, maybe the 4c will be looked back on the car that helped save Alfa, like the 308 did Ferrari and the Boxster did Porsche.

I do wish I could have had a manual in the 4c. From what I've read the transmission is the limiting factor: maxed out on torque. And due to "packaging" no obvious manual would fit.

That said, having driven a 458 and a few different Porsches with the dual clutch transmission I've seen their benefit for performance (not involvement though).

And since a 458 is way out of my budget...

 

I read a term this morning which I think applies to where I am comming from. Its called "connected criticism" Its criticism from within a tradition, not outside, moved not by malice, but by affection for the object being criticised.

So yes I applaud all you who have bought a 4c, not just because its good for Alfa, but because it shows manufacturers and the world that there is still a market for cars you actualy DRIVE and a desire to buy them, the miata ticks this box too.

By the same token, I do remember the Alfa 156/159, it looked great, was stylistic masterpiece with its hidden rear doorhandles. It also drove sub par, and had a powetrain that felt like a rubber band.

If we are talking the history of Alfa, then as someone pointed out the past 20 years have been mismangement and fiat motors. The italian arrogance that we will make a stylistic beauty and its italian so people will buy it anyway.

If the 308 saved ferrari its because it developed into the faster better more driveable QV and 328 after the disaster that was the GTBi(0-60 in 9,2secs). Luca years ago in an inetrview said the car he wa most proud of, the one that saved ferrari was the 355, becasue they did so much with so little, makign a seminal car, ultilizing the questionable 348 as a platform because thta si what they had. Point is ferrari really tried, and knocked one out the park, they didnt stop at good enough, they went for greatness.
While there is no quip with 4c styling, mechanicaly and dynamicaly Lest see the 355 version of the 4c.

Alfa, the did the 8c which was a reclothed maserati that didnt handle as well as the maserati and sold in limited numbers based on looks to keep tha flag fying.

The 4c, what can be done? Its the same motor essentialy as a dart, you can get the dart with a stick, so the stick transaxle exists. Maybe it needs stronger gearsets.

Turbo motor, look what prodrivce did for subaru,(240Hp to 350) and subaru sold those cars through dealers. If little lotus can get the new evora 400hp supercharged motor through epa so can alfa get an amped up mtoor through.

Or look at toyota with TRD. Like TRD Alfa could offer cams and a chip for the 4c at dealer level, maybe it would void the warranty, but even a few so modded cars woudl fly the flag.

As to the 458, a few years back I was so smitten with the shape that I contemplated stretching to one. Two boring drives later I knew it was not for me. Yeah maybe at 9/10 on a track it could be fun, but otehrwise, well it was flashy porche.

The 4c comes along on the show circut. I was amazed it got built and was ready to sign, it seemd the car we wish ferrari would make. Then I saw the spec and reviews. If Alfa really wants to comepte, it has to compete dynamicaly, not by making anoher borign comfortable cayman, but by making a car then that is dynamicaly superior esp at full chat. They have the bones to do so, but seem content to rest again on stylign and sort of fast enough.

Alfa needs to strive for excellence, and the 4c as its showcase should do so, it cant be that hard to get the otehr 15% there. Budget limted cars for the last 20 years is what made alfa less than an also ran.

It wouldnt take that much to get the 4c there. Lets have the upgrades, if for epa and fuel economy reasons you cant get it on the showrroom floor then have the autodelta offering developed and offered by alfa, a set of cmns, and tuning, hell even harley offers that for its bikes, and mini offered cams heads etc on the cars a few years back.

 

Connected criticism: I like that. Sounds fair to me. I stand by my statement that the 308 saved Ferrari. At least elevated it (good or bad) to where it is now. One of the few cars that made it a house hold name. And provided platform for some of the greats (328/288/F40).
And point taken about Alfa...

 

+1

And Alfa Romeo will not allowed to put a ~350hp engine in the 4c because that would likely hurt Ferrari sales. So all this point in that we need a better engine is a mute point. Alfa Romeo cannot compete with Ferrari or Maserati.

Boxerman, maybe when Alfa's finances improve they will come out with a revised 4c that will address the handling on the limit comments. Personally I'm not sure there is an issue, and I would have to spend a day with one at the track and on public roads to concur. Remember all those that criticised the 911 and while they were printing this, others were winning race after race ...
Pete

 

I'd rather have this than the 458 I gave up.

It's prettier, it certainly has more purpose of design, it appears to be a more emotional experience, and I can do a lot with the $250,000 difference.

I think you can rip the 4c apart and beat the crap out of it. It's not so fast that you can't get out of 1st.

Best thing about the 4C? They don't charge you $1800 for two shields glued to the sides.

 

Well said. The car is a gem. Id take it shopping and to dinner as well. No reason not to as long as parking is not an issue. Its a car. A fun car and one that grabs you. Well done to all who have them in possession. My multi hour test around South Germany was one of the best car days in a long while. Enjoy them. Life is short.

 

I woiuld say that anybody who needs the reinforcement of sheilds glued to the side of their F-car deservs to pay $1800 or more.

Not riping the 4c so much as pointing out what it could/should be with a little effort from alfa. Since its their tip of the spear for relaunch, lets see the autodelta. marketing 101.

But yeah a 350hp 4c may blow away a ferrari for a driver. But its 0-60 top speed stats will still trail and you cant put sheilds on it, so I dont think ferrari woudl be threatened.


"It's prettier, it certainly has more purpose of design, it appears to be a more emotional experience," agreed, now lets have it reach its potential.

 

As someone who owns a 4C, I would like to respond to some of the issues that you raise.

1-Almost all of the reviews that criticize the 4C's handling and ride have been of the euro-spec car. Alfa modified the chassis and suspension of the US spec 4C, which appears to have improved the ride and reduced the jitteriness and harshness that European reviewers noted on not so perfect roads. I can tell you from personal experience that the 4C's ride, while firm, is quite comfortable and composed over all but the worst roads. BTW, increasing the tire pressure by 3 pounds over the recommended 26/29 PSI improves the ride a good bit.

2-If you are basing your opinion about the 4C on reviews ( which I would not recommend), I would point out that the US spec car has gotten some serious love. Automobile Magazine All Stars, Autoweek Review Notes, Motor Authority Best Car to Buy, Motor Trend Best Drivers Car competition (where the 4C finished ahead of the 911 Turbo, Nissan GTR, BMW I8, and Jaguar F type), MotoMan TV ( who loves Lotus, and absolutely gushes about the 4C), and others I can't remember right now, all absolutely love the Alfa 4C.

3-I have a friend with a Lotus Elise, and after he drove the 4C, is seriously considering selling the Elise and buying the Alfa. I have driven both cars, and in my opinion the Alfa is superior in just about every way. The interior is much nicer, more spacious and comfortable, the handling is terrific on both cars, the Alfa is faster, has a better sounding engine, and is one of the most beautiful cars in the world.

4-Also, don't believe the criticisms of the interior in many of the reviews. The double stitched leather wrapped dash, seats, doors, and wheel, sitting on a polished carbon fiber top, is stunning. Everyone that his seen my car has commented on how beautiful the interior is. Contrary to most, I have come to really like the Parrot infotainment system (though it took me a while to get the hang of it). The Waze navigation app works great, and Spotify is great for streaming music, and I can stream Sirius and Amazon music through my Iphone.

5-I agree that the 4C is a polarizing car, even in US spec, with some dissenters to its greatness. (Car & Driver recent comparo to the Cayman, some Motor Trend Staffers, a few others I can't remember. That is why you should drive the car yourself before coming to any conclusions about its handling, ride, etc. Umsneeze and Scantera, since you actually own and have driven the 4C, I would be very interested in your thoughts.

 

Please, don't ruin Boxerman's hatefest of this car.

 

Looking forwards to trying one.

 

Mayor, we all thought you were lost. How is the vette.

 

It's "meh". Stopped driving it. I've discovered it's the "Budweiser" of sports cars. It's good for the masses if you've not had better.

Waiting for a 4c, probably a spider.

I prefer a good Tuscan red of a domestic brew.

 

The 4C is lining up to be a "cult" car and its still in production. There really is no other automotive offering that is so pure. Its like a modern Stratos.
If it really truly only does 2 years of production (vs the 5 originally planned) financial appreciation will begin after the last one rolls off the line.

 

Interesting thoughts all around:
Those of us who own them love them.
Most of those who write about them love them, but a few don't.
Those who love Alfa, are mixed: Happy they are back in the states, but were wishing for more.

I think most can agree it's great to have another sports car choice.

Nothing is perfect. There's always faster, prettier, etc

Until someone else builds an affordable super hot looking go cart on steroids that you don't see coming toward you every day, I'll keep mine.

 

Is it really in production for only two years?
Yes it will be a cult car like a stratos. As will and elise in the inflection of time.
Dont forget though that every stratos today is subtly sorted, not as delivered.
After prod ends there will be deals on used ones, and the 4c that becomes cult will be an updated sorted one wth a few choice aftermarket pieces.
Better get my order in now then.

BTW its similar to boxers, the sorted ones drive great,a regular one has flashes of brilliance, but...

 

Would you invest in a new 458 for financial appreciation?? The 4C will not be valuable for atleast a few years after production stops. The Alfa 8C was more limited and even it has LOST VALUE from sticker price since it came out, although you would not think so based on the Kool-Aid being offered on several threads here! The 8C will be valuable some day, but you will have to hold on to it for a few more years and the 4C even longer.

My guess is the 4C will be upgraded in 2 years to a better more powerful car with a new name possibly, thus making the original 4C worth less. Buy this car because it is fun, not for an investment at this point.

 

Here is the BIG problem with Alfa

They don't know what they hell they are doing. Actually, I'm being kind.

Some dealers say it's going to be limited to 5000 cars total world-wide, including Spiders

Others say they plan to send 3000 a year to the US.

Alfa USA is its own worst enemy. It's put out so much BS no one believes anyone anymore. For example, I've been told that it may never be possible to order a car -- but my dealer has ordered one for himself for sale. Alfa USA has told dealers not to take deposits on cars -- but dealers still do not knowing they will ever get a car or not.

Dealers have no clue when they will get replacement 4c's when they sell them. Alfa won't tell them and after saying for 4 months since last July cars were coming, no one believes them anymore.

Then you have dealers doing stupid things like tagging on 30 grand over MSRP "market adjustments". You can buy a nice 360 Modena Spider for that money. I guess they don't look at Cars.com.....

The cars seem to have a chronic problem -- check engine and check gearbox lights. Also a lot of suspension "knocking". Makes you wonder what they were doing all that time in the 4 months car cars were delayed.

The new Alfa 4c spider is also a big mystery. No one knows when it will show up and how many they will make.

Basically, it's a mess and I don't think it will get any better any time soon.

That's Italian.

BTW: If you ask me, they will stop 4c production as soon as they have a "real" car to sell in showrooms. The 4c is a money losing PR stunt. Alfa will replace it with a lower priced 2 seat sports car that actually makes them money. If it has "collector car" status down the road, it will be from it's looks more than anything else. I'm reminded that in 1982, I bought a beat up 246 Dino gt for $8000 and you could get a good one for $16K. Back then, 12 years after it was made, it was just "an old car".

 

Dont think so bc no one is missing lotus and alfa is basically an updated elise. And lotus has stick which should make it more desirable

 

If they stop production at 5k untis worldwide, give it 10 years and we will see values climb. It also all depends on whether something similar is available in the market.

An interestign qusetion. The new spider was supposed to be based on the Miata. Look at the wieght of the miata, listen to the relly growing reports of how it drives. Imagine Italian coachwork and the 240HP engine. I imagine all this and look at 4c performance and you can see why the 4c performance needs to move up a few notches. Well I guess we will be gettign a fiat Abarth version of the miata, shoudl be an inetresting drive.

Yeah the 4c will be upgraded if they stick with it, or some enterprisiong aftermarket people will offer serious upgrades for the used market. Thats styling and CF tub is just too appealing and has too much potential to leave as is.

My wish list, a stick and 300+hp 7k redline with sorted suspension.
Also the rumored masser version with the TTV6, but then really why buy any ferrari..
Well one can always wish.

 

Low miles exige 260s are already back above list. Someone is mising or wanting them.
A 10 yo elsie is still 60% of MSRP,

 

There is an aftermarket box that will give you 300 HP now. So, I guessing Alfa will introduce a Stradale version with that amount or more.

I think the suspension is not the issue. People who have driven it say it's a wonder.

It's the quality control that is bringing it down. That, and that most Americans are "too big" to fit in one. Hell, 25 % of Americans are too big to fit in the Corvette C7 so you can imagine the issue with the little Alfa.

 

All the nonsense from Alfa aside and despite some wanting more or better from the car, I just may to give in on holding out for sticker and get one of these...I do need to go see one and ensure I fit in it (6'3" 260lb).

Oh, "hey mayor"...glad to have you back on F-chat (somewhat belatedly)

 

Why would a Stradale version have more power.

You guys do realise that Stradale means "Street".
Pete

 

Explain that to the Italians.

Remember the 360 Challenge Stradale?

 

That name makes perfect sense: The 360 Challenge is a race car out of the box from the factory - a dedicated race car, not intended nor legal for the street. The 360 Challenge Stradale is a "street" version of that race car, hence the added "Stradale".