Volkswagen Pheaton 3rd time's a charm :)

Hi guys. I Just picked up my 3rd VW Phaeton and wanted to let people in on what a secret this car still is. A hand-made brilliant masterpiece of engineering that can be had for 8-10k, Nothing quite like it. The only other handmade car that is under 100k retail is the G-wagen. And every bit as groundbreaking as the first generation LS400 Lexus. Car has over 100 patents that are still pretty much untouched.

Strengths

-Personality and charm. It has it in spades. Car feels extremely solid due to its torsional rigidity and the interior is perfectly executed. Far more charming than it's step brother the flying spur.

-Driveability and road feel. Think of the handmade s classes of the 90s meets the E38 7 series bmw. An absolute tank with unmatched build quality, yet with a great engine sound much similar to the BMW. Best of both worlds, luxury and grunt. Car loves cruising at 85 and always tries to get to that speed wether you like it or not. It's a gas pig in regard to city driving. But when it is on the highway, it eats up miles and the acceleration is UNRELENTING past 60mph. No lag at all, if you put your foot to the floor it will be at 130 before you know it, a total locomotive.

-Interior. The car's strongest point IMO. GORGEOUS interior. Modern and classic look blended together. Everything is exactly where it should be. Front seats are Gigantic and the definition of comfortable. The quality of the leather is unreal and uber soft. Rear leg-room is unmatched, all cars are LWB and has more leg room than the S class mercedes.

-Climate control system- The best system ever offered in a car EVER and is still the only draftless ventilated car in the world. Perfect for those long road trips with your cigar of choice in hand. No smoke will be blowing into your face

-AWD. Every Phaeton is all wheel and with a curb weight of almost 6k pounds, it is fantastic in the snow. Great winter car, which is what I bought it for.

-Flexible personality. Four different suspension settings, two sport, two soft ride. Great for long trips, and great when you want to throw the car around some turns. It hides its weight well when in full sport. I usually leave it on the semi-sport setting.

Negatives

-Running costs and service obviously. Some dealers don't seem to know how to work on the car, but the right dealers are fair in regard to diagnosing and servicing. Parts are Ridiculously expensive.

-Styling. It's a bit bland, but still an attractive car with a great looking rear end.

-W12 Tranny - For some reason they never offered the W12 transmission with the 6 speed in the US. Which every v8 model has. Makes for crappy gas mileage and a less pure driving experience. Had a W12 on the last run and switched back to the V8 to get the 6 speed back.


This car is absolutely fantastic. You have to drive it and experience it for yourself to get it. Which due to its rarity, most people have never driven or sat in one. And then disregard it because it is VW. HUGE mistake. It is a bentley flying spur for 1/6 of the price. And the secret it is, it is the BETTER all around car. Try it for yourself, it will blow your mind.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9Q65sLZhs0
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And if you get bored, you can always count the number of buttons!

 

What was the W12 version like? Rare car. But when you find them for sale they tend to have a lot of owners. Bit of a red flag.

 

Isnt the Phaeton a rebodied Bentley Continental GT? Quick peek on Ebay most are in the 100k - 150k miles. Nice to know the Bentley can stay on they road that long if my hunch is correct.

 

I have always loved the Phaeton. Still think about it as a weird move from VW, though.

 

It was an epic car. Sounded great when you fired it up, but to be honest the V8 Sounds a little bit better. The 12 has an absolute ROCKET to drive though. Awesome car. It has the quad pipes in the back instead of the regular duals that the 8 has. And it has a little bit more wood trim inside than the 8. Other than that they are pretty much identical. Both cars are rare. Only about 500 W12s brought into the us, and about 2-3 thousand V8s were imported.

The main issue that everyone runs into with the 12 is the torque converter going bad which I think is about 2-3 grand to replace. Can't go wrong with either car though, they're both great. If the W12 had the 6 speed in it, I would have bought another. My old one was water damaged and had to be totalled.

It is a bit wierd, but they did it and are continuing to produce it at a loss even today in order to create a HALO effect around the VW brand. It will always be a loser in the US due to everyone wanting to be a brand-whore. I'm telling you though, I'm on my third one now and I was ready to upgrade to the continental GT as a winter toy. Drove it twice and was not impressed by it. The Phaeton IMO is the better car, as crazy as that sounds.

It was the prototype car for the GT, and when it was released they were producing both cars side by side in the glass factory in Dresden. Once the demand for the Bentleys ballooned, (due to the 180k price, which is cheap for bentley) they moved the production to a different plant. It's the exact same car, switches, leather wood, etc. The only difference really is the body and the interior styling. Many people confuse it as the same car as the A8 but it isn't. The A8 is aluminum bodied and the phaeton is steel, weighs 2k pounds more. THe GT is the same W12 engine but with the turbos. And they put the 6 speed in the bentley.

 

that is such a cool car

 

Biggest mistake...

Making it look like a bigger Passat.



Some unique styling might have helped tremendously.

Friend has one...really wonderful car.

 

I agree, although the front and rear end are very different. But from the side, it does look passatish.
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..watched the video and the underlying marketing theme was "wisdom"...I think hubris is better suited in case. I would buy one more as an inside joke - "people's car" that retailed for $100K- really clever, even the Japanese figured that one out and opted to develop spin high end brands like Lexus and Acura...

 

Right but those cars are NOT handmade nor have the underlying engineering and unlimited engineering budget to boot. Had the phaeton been marketed as a separate luxury brand, it would have exploded. It's that good. I've driven the Genesis, equus, etc. They're nice cars but are not engineering marvels.

The first Lexus was in a sense the closest thing to the phaeton of its time. It was a gigantic leap forward in engineering and luxury, except it had a brand name to back it up, which the phaeton does not. It was about 50 percent handmade and shamed everything in its class, nothing was even close. And they have not made a car even close to that good since. There is no car on the sub 100k price market even today that can match the phaeton in a luxury sense. However, the Tesla has definitely eclipsed it in the engineering aspect. But it was the best you could buy for almost a decade, just like the Lexus was. Not bad.

 

No, I don't think it is; see Lancia Thesis.

 

One of Piechs biggest mistakes was to try to sell such a great piece of engineering under the Volkswagen brand styled like a big Passat. They should have resurrected one of the countless old luxury brands out there, like Horch or Borgward, and have it properly designed. It would have been a great success. But not as a VW.

On the other hand, as you say, they're dirt cheap now.

 

The LS400 was certainly a nice car when it came out but I don't quite follow the comparison. The primary reason for its success was a great marketing strategy and excellent value - $35k vs the MB equivalent of $70K, however; if looked at the engineering and manufacturing it was still a Toyota, with many stamped vs cast parts... I drove an LS400 for a couple of years and moved to a used '91 400 SEL when the price point was more reasonable, the quality was FAR superior (take the door panel off the Lexus vs MB and you'll see what I mean) as were the innovations... Are you saying the Pheaton at the time outclassed anything up to $200K ...some pretty serious competition. As for "handmade" being a positive, having worked on "handmade" cars (older Aston Martin) , can't say that it's always a correlate to quality..

 

Are they still making the new ones in Europe?

 

Thank you for posting this, Brad.

This may be my next car!

Matt

 

Read more about the engineering years and budget that went into the UFC10 LS400, it was not just a Toyota. It was ridiculously overengineered and was the sole reason for the success of the company. I believe they spent almost a decade developing the car and spent billions and billions of dollars developing the prototype. It was the best lux car in the world by far when it was released, FACT. iRemember, when it was first announced people were laughing and mocking the fact that it was a Japanese luxury car.

Yes, they still offer it overseas. They stopped importing it to the US in 2006.

Give it a go, you will be in for quite the pleasant surprise

 

I was never much of a Lexus fan. They may have spent billions on development, it wasn't nearly as good as a S class Mercedes. A girlfriend had a Camry fully loaded when Lexus launched and it wasn't much different. Have had friends in Lexus over the years. The only thing they beat my Mercedes S class in was depreciation. The Benz falls like a rock. I've had an 420SEL, S500, 500SL, even my 300E was better then any Lexus, S430, etc. Now if I was to get a sedan it would either be the Rolls Royce Ghost or an S550 Mercedes.

The VW is surprisingly above good. It does compete with the $200k crowd.

 

If you can get behind the wheel of a well kept 1990-94 LS400, then you'll get it. It is an incredibly good car. Leather is connolly, yamaha wood trim, ergonomics are fantastic, unreal Nakamichi 6 disc sound system, engine and tranny are 5 star. Again, it was a one shot deal. They began to cut corners after that car. It was the best LUX car lexus ever made and will ever make. The only shortcoming it had was the RWD setup was awful in the snow. The car did have character, which the new ones obviously do not. I had a few GS400s afterward, and they were both disappointments after owning the UFC10.

 

I've worked for Volkswagen of America for the last eight years and have had the pleasure of driving both the V8 and W12 version on several occasions. To this day, the W12 Phaeton is still the smoothest accelerating car I've ever driven. There is absolutely no vibration felt inside of the cabin even when surpassing triple digits. One if the finest cars ever built without a doubt.

 

I couldn't find the source for the Phaeton related info in this email. Still . . .

There's also the claim that the ride height has to be brought to Euro spec for the car to feel even remotely "sporty".

(Slight edit.)

 

There used to be a website called the Phaeton universe.uk. Which had a rollover picture of the car that went over some of the patents and the incredible engineering features. The last time I saw it was back in 2007-2008. It has been down for some time now. It was super cool. It was much sexier and more appealing than any of the marketing in the US.

http://www.autospies.com/news/Visit-the-VW-Phaeton-universe-and-take-the-Virtual-factory-tour-580/

 

This. You really have to know cars to know what you're looking at.

 

Exactly. And 9/10 people who test drove them new and passed are not gear-heads to the point that they are aware of the engineering and handcrafted details. They simply look at the badge first and foremost, styling, features, etc. Everybody I know who has had one of these things or owns one currently is absolutely smitten with them. It is an incredible car, and insultingly cheap for what it is. I still have not driven in or rode in a newer LWB sedan in the 100k and under price range that is nicer and as well put together as this car. I rode in a friends brand new S550, and the interior felt and looked incredibly cheap compared to the phaeton.

 

Fyi. A 12 going thru Manheim Auto Auction.
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