Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

I can give you some hard factory numbers, not complete but it might be useful.

The 918 generates 147kg @ 300km/hr on the rear axle in with the rear wing in speed mode, i.e. Sports-Hybrid.

The 918 generates 205kg @ 300km/hr in Performance mode, i.e. Race-Hybrid/Hot Lap mode

I don't have number for the front down force amount, but in Performance mode, the front has 39% more downforce than in Speed mode with the aero ducts opened.

0.35Cd when the car is in normal mode, i.e. wing down.

0.40Cd when the car is in Speed mode, wing up but with a low drag profile, 8 degree attack angle.

0.42Cd when the car is in Performance mode, wing up at max attack angle, i.e. 14 degree

Porsche also claimed the 918 can do 2g sustained lateral load in Performance mode, haven't seen someone achieved that in testing but they being Porsche there is no reason to doubt them, I mean, they still stick to their guns about the car can do 0-100km/hr in 2.6 seconds.

 

Actually to supplement the above post, during MT's 1st test of the 918 at Big Willow, it was mentioned that the car has 657lb of downforce @ 186mph, that's 298kg at 300km/hr

So that gives 93kg max for the front in I believe in Performance mode, and 67kg max for the front in Speed mode.

 

The CCX was tested alongside the other hypercars and was comfortably the slowest despite having a big PWR advantage

MC12, Enzo, Zonda, Carrera GT, CCX at Nürburgring - Teamspeed.com

Undoubtedly the Regera looks stunning but it would be good to see if any of the newer Eggs can put their power down effectively on track.

 

If what I understand is right, though, the Regera never puts down all 1800 bhp. At low speeds the e-Motors do most of the work while at high speeds the ICE is the main work-horse. And the crank e-motor is dedicated almost only to fill the turbo-lag. Anybody can confirm this?

 

A little bit off

See the pic from a 918 document.

229 lbs ~ 104kg,
428 lbs ~ 194kg.

Total is correct though, 298kg @ 300kph
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

This is the kind of thing was was never bragged about. It has PLENTY of aero, that combined with mechanical grip, + ace drivetrain, it punches soooo much harder than Ron and Co anticipated.

 

Now, i really don't see why a road car would need 600kg of DF if it can't get to that speed quick enough to activate it. I'll fully admit though that when i first heard it i was excited, but now after learning a bit more about all three and where, when, and how their aero activates, I think the P1 probably needed to take the laf approach with more mech grip than purely aero.

 

Well, NR is only one track. You make it sound like 7:33 means it can't put it's power down at all. It must be able to in order to achieve such a fast time with such an old car.

The slowest among the best isn't exactly a bad thing. Never said it was the best car, but it's far from bad. In fact, 7:33 on tires from 2008 is probably well into the 7:20s on the latest and greatest. That would still put it among the fastest exotics out today aside from the 918/LF/P1.

Not sure it's very reliable, but it certainly has a lot more to show off than straight line performance.

 

Very interesting. Just for comparison purposes, Ferrari claim 325 kg at 250 km/h for their new 488. Ferrari 488 GTB: record-breaking aerodynamics

 

This thread is destined to reach 2,000 pages without any concrete evidence to its topic whatsoever...

Ferrari and McLaren are the ones to blame sadly.

 

I've already done the calculation so why keep spitting the dummy? P1 sits on 1 inch smaller tyres, with less air in because it's lighter. Race Mode lowers it by 50mm.

Please write out the calculation you think doesn't work longhand, otherwise it's difficult to see where you think there's an issue, most of your chart figures look wrong, including tyre max load. You're essentially trying to prove the P1 can't do what it's already done, go!

Ignoring load transfer control devices.

Trofeo R - 235 1476lb, 305 1874lb

F+R Tyre Max Load = 3350lb = 1521kg

Vehicle Mass with driver and 5% gas = 1380 + 5 + 75 = 1460kg

Track = 1.658m

F+R Mass + Downforce (kg)/2 = (1460/2) + 600/2 = 730kg + 300 = 1030kg

1521 - 1030 = 491kg

Max Lateral Mass Transfer = 491kg = Mass * (Hcog*2)/Track

Hcog = (491/1460)*(1.658/2) = 0.278m

Now since P1 Hcog is 4 inches lower than 918's, this is perfectly fine.

Repeat: The real BS is Porsche kidding everyone that there car is fast with 2 minute stints.

 

I don't believe any aerodynamic info from anyone. It's something that almost no one can test and can probably be given with respect to a bunch of different methods. There is like one magazine that even tries to measure it and half the cars end up having more lift than DF.

 

You'd be surprised how much lying our own news channels do. The calculation comes in well within reason, only 55mm lower CoG than Porsche. Car sits 1 inch (25.4mm) lower anyway - 1 inch smaller tyres and less air in them. Race mode lowers car 2 inches. So there's 3 inches (76.2mm).

Right, so a car's going to race with a full load in, is it? Clearly if it could pull 2g with 2 passengers and luggage, they'd have said 'over 2g'.

Depends how load is distributed.

Option tyre.... yawn.

Incorrect.... yawn.

LOL, because they've already done it in independent tests at Texas Motor Speedway and Castelloli. If you like, bring the 918 over to Spa and they'll show you again if you like, in real life, rather than leaving you bench racing.

All this because the 918's battery can't last.

And the P1 pulled higher g at Castelloli.

And still got beaten through T6 at Laguna Seca, which isn't particularly fast. The difference is that the P1 will run the 918 close even on tracks that suit it, and even when it's at 100% charge (LOL). Take the 918 to a track that suits the P1 and the difference will be seconds not tenths, HL or not, it won't even be close. Therein lies the difference. So far they haven't had the bottle to do that though, instead sticking to autocross tracks. There are certain compromise to low speed handling that have to made to make a car stable and corner well at speed. Through the 60+mph stuff at Laguna, the P1 was the clear winner. It's blatantly obvious what will happen on a faster, longer track.

http://i.imgur.com/dLAcuXg.jpg

Rubbish. Tons of such corners on the Nordschleife and other larger tracks. You've developed that conclusion simply because of the very limited range of tracks magazines test one. However, even at Anglesey Coastal it paid dividends. In F1, mech grip wins very few races, aero grip lots.
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

So, watching closely the onboard video of the first MT test at Laguna Seca, gives enough information, what happens with the 918’s battery charge through the first, respectfully second and third lap.

It’s more than clear, that:

1. We have no major battery drop on any straight – the average one is around 12-13%;
2. We have tons of charge after every lift off or braking. Massive!;
3. Even starting his first lap without battery to be 100%, he has enough power for at least 3 laps without falling under 0% anywhere on the track;
4. We have clear evidence, that he used Hot Lap – no mode changes seen and equivalent pace with Treynor’s test.

So, telemetry is good, but here the objective was massively different – best lap for the day. So, to rely only on telemetry, we need to answer some questions;

1. Do we have any evidence, that Randy didn’t try different driving modes on these 3 consecutive warming laps?. He did this in Big Willow before;
2. Do we have any evidence, that Randy didn’t use different driving strategies and lift off points? He did that already in Big Willow before;

The conclusion is, that without having the official info from MT, all is just speculation.

will leave here an indicative map of what happens with the battery % of the 918 and waiting LMFAO to find ways to manipulate it.

*markers are indicative for start of straight/end of straight and also, where available in the video.


http://youtu.be/vg1fY1fVYNk?t=1h1m8s
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

The CCX had very little aero, something like a One:1 has 610kg at 174mph, so that would likely be substantially better. Also has a fairly sophisticated active suspension if anyone had bothered to look.

 

Sadly that particular German magazine tests the cars with a static floor, which doesn't give the correct results.

 

It's no manipulation, you've just don't understand electricity. You don't have to run out of charge to see reduced power. As charge falls voltage drops. For the 918:

Max. = 430V
Nominal = 385V
Min. = 283V

At 606A

Max. = 430 x 606 = 261kW
Nominal = 385 x 606 = 233kW (-38hp)
Min. (not 0% SOC) = 283 x 606 = 171kW (-121hp)

Except e-motors have an efficiency rating too, which can degrade when not operated near peak. So there's a whole world of stuff to consider besides just charge levels. Basically if the ECU has any sense, once the battery reaches a level where continued HL operation will be worse than RH operation, it will automatically regulate charge use, which is probably what we're seeing in the telemetry.

By 50% SOC, voltage may be 300V, so you've already lost >100hp.
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Something interesting (at last):

How The 1,500 HP Koenigsegg Regera Hits 248 MPH Without A Gearbox

 

Official mouthpiece right on cue:

 

Sorry, but completely false. Will leave someone else to explain this...
Btw, try to extrapolate this on your smartphone performance, while on max load...

 

Very interesting yes. But, single drive transmission? Hm...
Having a lot of experience with heavily modified off road vehicles with such gearboxes, this concept will be very, very strange on the road, imv...

 

A smart phone rarely draws full power and it's likely to apply current compensation when it does. Just because it's a Lithium Ion battery doesn't mean its charge-voltage envelope is exactly the same.

Again, the telemetry is what it is, this is just the explanation for it. Arguing with the explanation does not change that which it is explaining.

 

I think it's really neat. Couldn't imagine the sound from inside doing 0/400 km/h!

 

As I said, telemetry is good for Treynor's dream race and F1 Sunday's...
For MT and Porsche objective was "best lap for street legal car". Which was...?

 

I think somethings which has been over looked (which you alluded to), was the 918 battery can drop low in Hot Lap mode during a long straight, then rise up drastically after braking.

So the battery rate may not be the End All Be's All, if it can rise so drastically. A Red Herring in many respects.

You could see that on the ring video with Lieb (though I haven't watched anything from the most recent Laguna Seca test). As soon as he hit the brakes after the long Döttinger Höhe Straight the charge rates rises dramatically. I've seen that in other instances as well.

Of course, Hot Lap Mode is a benefit of the 918 thoughtful design in the first place (regardless, if it takes an ace pro driver breaking records to drop the charge rate any appreciable amount), so the variation in it's charge rate under heavy loads--such as with Pobst-- may be a trade off. So in the end, the long talk about it by many disgruntled McLaren fans can really be labeled nonsensical or desperate TBH. It's there for a reason.

Maybe, if the 918 didn't have Regenerative braking in HL Mode, this would be the issue many McLaren fans want it to be? But it does.