1973 Ferrari 365GT4 2+2 Chassis 18775

Mr. Massini, thanks for the info on 18767.

I think my car had a rough life. I first saw it on the Forza web site (Peter Sweeny). I think I saved his original pictures but I have to find them. The car was in primer and the engine was partially disassembled and a bunch of the parts were in boxes, if I rember correctly this was in 2008. At this point in time I had been looking at this series of cars for a couple of years. I decided I was most interested in the 365 GT4 because I wanted the Webers and also I wanted a 1975 car or older so emission testing would never be an issue. By the time I contacted Peter the car had been sold to Brett, I wasn't aware at that time who it was sold to. I contacted Brett to do a PPI on a different car for sale in Toronto. The PPI wasn't great and Brett mentioned a car he had just bought that needed a lot of work, this was infact the Forza car (18767). Brett and I worked out a deal on what he wanted to do and what I wanted done and we came up with a price. I talked frequently with Brett and he was great to work with. There were some additional parts I wanted replaced and we worked those issues out. My goal was to have the car reliable and drivable so we (family of four) could drive the car up to Alaska. We drove the car up in the summer of 2010.

Sorry to hijack the thread but I couldn't resist!

 

thanks Jim...it was a pleasure for us also.
a few pics help to illustrate...

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Congrats Sam !

Enjoy it in good long health, hopefully you will get to enjoy it to a certain degree before the snow falls!

 

Good day BR,

Thank you very much! As for going for a spin "before the snow falls"... well... ahem... I am not so sure. Calgary apparently got hit with about 20cm of snow this morning... We received some wet snow on the (Sunday) evening I rolled in and it has been cold and nasty here... The nasty weather appears to have arrived about 6-7 weeks ahead of schedule. I suspect it will improve a bit, but the car needs a number of things before it will be able to be on the road. Here in AB, we have to have an Out of Province inspection... which is basically a safety inspection, but extends to virtually every item in the car. So, if anything does not work (interior fans, interior lights, gauges, etc), then it can fail the test... Secondly, some of the car's mechanicals will also need some attention... exhaust is rusty, suspension rubber is dry and cracked, tires are virtually new, but dated, etc. Overall a good solid "go through" to make it pass our inspection. That being said, I was planning on doing these items and whatever else over the Winter... which it seems is starting now ... By next Spring/Summer the car should be on the road and so I will have to wait until then to fully experience it!

Cheers,

Sam

 

Good day All,

As GreggG mentioned, I was lax in my efforts to document 18775... so here is what I captured from the original ad.

Cheers,

Sam

1975 Ferrari 365GT4 2+2 (Car was Titled as a 1973)
Color: Blue (Blu Tourbillon) Exterior with Tan (Beige VM 3218) Interior (Thank you again Mr. Massini for the color and interior details!)
Mileage: 14978 KMs (Verified by past History and owner)
Location: Maryland, USA
Chassis: 18775
Price: $23500 USD
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$23500...man that was a steal.

 

Fingers crossed for a sooner maiden voyage Sam ! I love the color combo !

Take many pictures !!

As for the snow, better for you up there for now than us down here

 

to say the least...it was a steal when I found it and bought it at the same price about 4 years ago for the last owner...it's much more than a 'steal' today...more like a gift !

 

Wow. I'm almost at a loss for words. This is the first time I have seen the Craig's List ad.

... If I had known or remembered that it were that pretty, maybe I would have wanted or expected more. But my friend called me and said he'd sold it. Then he said it was to Sam from Ferrari Chat.

My friend in Maryland who helped with the sale is an old and dear friend. The M5 in the pictures in the ad was mine years ago. And I still get visitation rights.


We all know Sam from this forum. We know him to be a nice fellow, who we share a passion for Ferrari with. He is happy to share with this community, his time, and when possible, his expertise and experience. I am happy to share with you all, that he is a gentleman. He worked pretty hard at this and was excellent in every regard.

Thank you Sam. And congratulations. Enjoy her in good health, on the open roads.

And thanks for posting the pictures. I know our fellow F-Chatters understand and appreciate it. ... There is a time to wait. And a time to hit hard and fast. ... Sam can move fast when he wants to fellas.

And thanks Brett, for your help. It was fun.

Cheers,
Stan

 

Good day Stan,

Thank you for your kind words, as they are most appreciated!

Cheers,

Sam

 

Hey Sam, isn't it time to change your profile from wanting a 365 GT4 2+2 to owning one ?

You've now joined a very elite group of people - it's about time you shouted it from the rooftops !!

Good luck with the car, hopefully you'll get yours on the road quickly - I've owned mine for almost a year now and it's still not really drivable, now due to ongoing (and bloody annoying) brake issues. You may recall the story of the rebuild which began last year and I swear I don't know how almost 12 months have slipped by !

Brakes - a long story short, Howard (the venerable squidmark) totally rebuilt my calipers (stripped, dipped, plated, new seals, new o-rings, new bolts etc) but the threads for the brake pipes and bleed nipples were worn and leaked when tested so I ended up getting them helicoiled. Refitted the calipers and three of them are leaking from the seals (I expected problems with the helicoils but not the seals).

Neither Howard nor I can work out why three of four rebuilt calipers would have this problem so I'm sticking the car on a low loader and getting it shipped to his workshop in the next few days - hopefully this problem and a few oil leaks will be sorted soon so I can get at least one drive in before winter arrives.

I polished her today (couldn't have her making her entrance at Howard's place looking rough) - achingly beautiful is how I would describe her.

This series of cars have a very special appeal to a select few - glad you're one of us !

 

Good day Russell,

Indeed... I should change my "want" list... In fact I will do so promptly! I guess the next "want" will be uninterrupted time to work on the car ...

As for 18775 and driving it this year... well... it is possible, but not too likely. Our weather has improved immensely, but I have other stuff on the go... I suspect you know the drill. However, I did spend some time last weekend going over the items needing attention and prioritizing them. Overall the tasks/items needed for our road inspection/registration would only entail a few days work... exhaust (from the headers back), suspension bushings, and some electrical items. As you aware we typically do not simply do not just fix what is needed, but do other things as well... so the "few days" usually translates to a few weeks/months of elapsed time...

As for your car... That is really a shame that it has been a "battle of the brakes"... Although I, too, have experience such bizarre issues. However on the positive side it is better that you are having issues now, as it would be very, very "unpleasant" should the brakes have leaked sometime later when you were driving... I am sure that once Howard gets the car in his capable hands that it will be quickly sorted and you will be soon experiencing the car on the Motorway! Best of luck to you and Howard for a speedy brake repair!

That you once again for your comments and generous welcome!

Cheers,

Sam

 

Good day All,

It has been a long time since I posted anything about 18775... my apologies! Although I have not been posting, I have been slowly working behind the scenes...well maybe planning and acquiring parts is more accurate.

In a nutshell 18775 is a very original car (just under 15000 KMs) but had little use in the last 14 years (last registered in 2002) and so requires some mechanical attention to make it a solid driver. Adding to this, the car spent most of its life in very hot climates (Middle East and Palm Springs) which kept any rust at bay, but wreaked havoc with the interior... So, with all that in mind my plan is to make 18775 as excellent driver as I can for the upcoming driving season. To achieve this goal I first did a complete assessment on the car to see where the car was at, what it immediately needed, and what could I get done for this upcoming season.

Current Condition
When I first got the car. the car ran and drove very well considering how long it sat. I have Stan to thank for that, as he had a number of services performed on the car while he was planning his strategy for the car. Adding to this the fellows that Stan had looking after the car were true custodians and really took excellent care of the car. Indeed, the car still needed a number of things, but the car stopped degrading from the time Stan acquired it. So, what does the car immediately need in order for me to register the car? The car needs the following:

a. New Exhaust
The current exhaust is rusted out from the headers back. The original exhaust is long gone and what is currently in place is a custom one fabricated with glass packs and resonator tips. Even though the exhaust is knackered it sounded excellent!

b. A number of electrical gremlins (i.e. headlamps work intermittently, passenger side window motor not working, etc)

c. Front and rear bumper shocks are not working

That is it... However, me being a bit of a stickler for details I also wanted to do a number of other things in order to really sort things out. As a consequence I will also be doing the following:

d. Brake rebuild/restore/flush

e. Suspension bushings
The heat has really knackered the rubber bushings

f. New tires

g. Replace fuel and coolant lines, etc

Effectively anything that is out of order I will sort out.

As for items that I want to do...Ideally a full resto like Mitchell's car... however this is simply not possible given the time frame and so some compromises are needed.

Paintwork
The car has been painted before and was done to an OK quality. There is no evidence of body damage, etc and so I suspect the paintwork was done because of the extreme climate that it was in. The paint looks OK and is fine for a driver, but really should be done... just not this season...alas...

Interior
As I mentioned earlier the interior really took the brunt of the heat. At a distance it looks OK, but the leather is very faded, very dry and brittle with seams/stitches pulling and breaking. The dash material has broken stitches and also a tear (presumably from a mounted radar detector, etc). Also the dash mousehair is super smooth and so the "hair" had rubbed/fallen off.

The carpets are also very faded, but are original

Trunk
The trunk/boot is utterly flawless and looks as if it has never been used. In fact I believe I have an original spare which the partial Michelin sticker on the tire!

So, what else am I going to do?... Well I decided that the entire interior needs to be redone. Consequently I ordered up 7 leather hides (I hope it will be enough of Connolly 3218 equivalent) and 5.5 metres of the Mousehair (from HVL). I have not yet sourced the carpet material or the roof vinyl, etc and I may leave this to my Upholstery buddy. In addition the the interior I will also be sorting out and restoring a number of the electrical switches, wires, blower hoses, etc that are buried within the console... and also removing and cleaning the window motors, etc.

I am hoping to have all or most of this done by about June and so it will be a challenge...That being said, I will post up my progress for all to see.

Cheers,

Sam
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Good day All,

Just a progress update... the interior is all out.

Overall the removal of the interior went very smoothly. Removing of the the dash was actually not too bad, as all of the retaining screws/bolts are not overly hidden.. except for the center mounting bolt which is only accessed from the engine bay behind a grommet...
The console was also straight forward where one simply has to take time and look for all the various fasteners. Interestingly, Ferrari decided to install the carpeting at the end, as the carpet is fitted underneath the side console panels ... which covered two side fasteners.

The front seats were a breeze, as there are only 4-6mm allen bolts holding them. The rear seats are equally simple with only two retaining nuts for each cushion. Once the cushions are removed the armrest and back mounting screws are visible and easily removed. The back panel simply lifts up.

The rear side panels are a little more difficult... not much... but there are two hidden screws next to the lower door jamb. The screws are hidden by the leather itself and a re revealed by carefully "peeling" the leather than is wrapped around the door body seam. After these screw(s) are removed there are two more and side panels simply come right out.

The rear deck now simply comes right out. There is also a rear deck panel that butts up close to the rear glass. In order to remove this one needs to remove two nuts located in the trunk/boot, but also the rear upper side panels.

Removal of the upper side panels requires the removal of the headliner trim bar. The headliner trim bar (which contains the dome light) is affixed by one screw located under the dome light and two plastic trim fasteners on either side. Removing the single screw and lightly prying either side of the trim bar will release it. Once the trim bar is removed the upper side panel mounting screws (one on each side) will be visible. Removing these will allow the upper side panels to be removed and then finally the last piece of the rear deck

All in all the whole process from start to finish took about 9 hours...and this included taking pictures, cataloging the fasteners, cleaning, etc. Overall I was impressed at how straightforward the process was... and with little drama/effort normally associated with Ferrari and other vintage boutique auto manufacturers.

Lastly, should anyone wish any detailed pictures of the naked interior let me know...

Cheers,

Sam
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Good day All,

Another interesting and "fun" aspect of a tear-down/rebuild is finding the factory build numbers... Low and behold I found a number of them and they are all matching (so far). For 18775 the build number is 326. Here I found 326 marked on the underside of the seat cushions, on tape placed on the front door panels, and also stamped on the doors themselves. Very cool...

Cheers,

Sam
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Very cool Sam! Great updates! Keep them coming!

 

Sam, I'd love to seat a front seat opened up. I am trying to fix my headrest detent and cant figure it out.

Are you planning to add dynamat or some sound & heat insulation?

 

Good day Brian,

I will do my best!

Cheers,

Sam

 

Good day Christian,

I will ask my upholsterer to call me when he splits the seats so I can take some pics for you.

As for Dynamat.... I have to give it some thought, as it is not really needed, as surprisingly there is a lot of factory padding (I will post some pics later to show what is there), etc already. My old GT4 and even my boxer had/has basically nothing, whereas, the 365 is fully padded. That being said, the rear seat back and bottom could use something better... along with the rear wheel arches, etc.

As for replacing the thick existing padding... I will do some thermal analysis of the current stuff to see how it compares to Dynamat.

Cheers,

Sam

 

Good day Christian,

My seats, etc were dropped off at my upholsterers and so it will be a bit before they open the seat. In the mean time I found this exploded view from Eurospares which shows the internal seat arrangements... I thought it might get you through until my seats are opened up.

Cheers,

Sam
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Thanks. I never thought to check euro spares for a seat pic. It looks like speakers in the seat are OEM???

 

Good day Christian,

You are most welcome!

As for the seat "speakers"... although these look like speakers they are actually vents. My Boxer has similar ones.

The vents are a two part assembly... one part is the inner "vent" portion made out of perforated steel and the other is an outer plastic trim piece with 4 mounting posts. The posts go through the seat back and the entire assembly is held in place by four metal barbed connectors pushed on the mounting posts. The result is no externally visible fasteners... The negative side is that it is a bit of effort to remove the fasteners.

In my case a lot of the posts are broken, but also the plastic outer trim has been heat warped and in 3 of the vents the trim is broken too. I did a quick search for these and so far I have been out of luck to find replacements. I will continue to look and if I am unsuccessful then I have two options:

a. I can CNC mill the outer trim ring out of Aluminum and then have it anodized black. The benefit here is that these will last a lifetime, but will not be exactly like the originals.

b. I can also create a silicone mold from the one good original and then use a a 2-part resin and recreate the originals. This would be the preferred process.... but since all of my pieces are warped so will be the recreations.... So... I may need to sculpt a master out of clay and then use this to create a mold...

As I said I am still looking to see what I can find... but the worst case is that I can simply recreate them if needed.

Cheers,

Sam
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Good day All,

The work continues... but a bit slower... I have had a number of larger projects come in and so my time is getting more compressed... alas... However, I did find a bit of time last weekend to check out a bit more of 18775's electrical system.

Overall I am very impressed with the Relays, fuseblocks, etc... Amazing the relays and connectors look like new!... The only thing is the Ammeter's shunt which looks a bit heat discolored. I will look closer at it to see if it is OK and if not, then I will find or make up a replacement. As for another interesting tidbit... I found another build number and this time it is on the back of the fuse panel. Clearly it shows the build number of "326", but is also dated 12-9-75 ... This is interesting, as the car was California titled as a 1973, but the serial number clearly indicated that it would be a 1975/76 model. Given this bit of dated it is clear that the car is indeed a 1975 model. Given the European date convention it would seem that the date on the Fuse Panel is September (9th month) 12, 1975.

On a secondary note... Can another 365 owner tell me or provide a picture of the mounting screws that hold the panel in place? I ask, as my panel only had two screws holding it and these did not look like the originals.

Lastly, I will remove and thoroughly inspect the fuseblocks just to be sure they are fine. At the same time I will review the blocks to see if I can develop a modern version that uses the ATC fuses (like I did for the Boxer and 308 Series: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/boxers-tr-m/140216-boxer-fuse-block-upgrade.html). Although the OEM blocks look fine I find the bullet fuses problematic and not as reliable as the ATC versions. Further, should one need a fuse...finding bullet style fuses are not as easy as finding ATC versions. If I do come up with a solution I will ensure that my solution maintains the OEM cover and mounting holes, etc.

Cheers,

Sam
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Please do it!

 

Good day Christian,

From a cursory view it looks pretty straightforward. I will not know for sure until I remove one of the blocks to see if there are any hidden issues. Regardless, I will post what I find and if I can modernize the blocks.

Thank you for your interest and enthusiasm!

Cheers,

Sam