Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

Thing is, after going into Race mode, the bumper, headlamps etc are all below legal standard, thus illegal for the road. It's not the ride height that's the problem.

Had McLaren went the bespoke route instead of modifying the 12C platform, they could have designed a car that starts at the height of Race mode, they simply just need to design a bumper higher and move the headlamps etc higher. Even the suspension geometry will be designed for the lowered right height to maximize grip.

Modifying something from another origin to fit a different destination is fine and dandy, it might work surprisingly well too, but in the end it will still be a compromise. The P1 is a car of compromises, McLaren was confined when they design and released it. It is still a fantastic
performer, overachieving actually, considered no one expect the 12C platform can be stretch upwards this far.

This is actually great news, as when McLaren next design a ground up hypercar, THAT car will be the one to beat.

 

the point CGT vs Enzo, Carrera Gt was surely better in slower corners, the Enzo maybe better in fasterst corners and, of coiurse, in straight (maybe BillS can say something ).
Mabye, but I cannot sure, CGT'd be a bit easier at the limit.
Also, Quattrotuote tested both in a direct comparo: CGT was 0s099 faster @ vairano (very slow track). QR explained "CGT is faster in the slowest part of the track, and it has better tires: CGT set its best @ 10th and last hotlap, contrary Enzo its best @ 5th, but unfortunally the Bridgestone Scuderia cannot resist more"
it was a big surprise when Evo (not S.A.) with Marc Basseng did , with stock cars, 7m28s on CGT (as claimed) and 7m25s on Enzo

 

as like as CarreraGT, annouced @ 558ps ..

 

Question for @Treynor
Ferrari unfortunally refuses the direct comparo with a stock unit... at least any chache to see a single test?

 

With a customer car, not a stock unit!

 

I'd also happy with a green and pink unit too

 

And we have some sanity at last .
Yes my friend it traction and torque that wins races . I Never understand why the 300 ft torque advantage is never mentioned . I'd rather have 300 pounds feet ( that's 406 nm ! ) torque over 40 hp any day of the week .
As for traction the 918 is 4wd, has 4ws,one of the most advanced tv systems ever developed in conjunction with a mechanical slippy diff etc etc

I think the open diff in the Mac it too reliant on brakes . Braking into a corner and accelerating out of a corner the brakes pulse on and of to do the job of a limited slip differential. How can braking while accelerating be the optimal path ? Innovation is great but sometimes it's not necessary to reinvent the wheel

Interesting that lago debunked another myth and stated categorically on reddit that neither car depleted batteries fully even in the hands of a pro and that obviously a weissach car would be faster still .

 

Weissach car + new N1 MPSC2 = might dip in the 1:28s on LS

 

Exactly. Acceleration is about torque (and traction).

 

Interested to see other party tests of the Regera. 2000Nm of torque, 2wd, claimed 0-186mph 12.3s, 0-249mph sub 20s. Different method with electric to get off the line and drive the car into the internal combustion engines peak range as it's in top gear (the one and only gear) only. Sure TC, but still claiming traction suffices. Ok not a track car, far from it but neither was 918 or LaF or Street mode P1 conceived or portrayed as a track car per se.

 

Flywheel torque is a pretty meaningless metric, as it then goes through the gearbox and the diff. Power to weight ratio, gearing and traction are all that matter. An engineer will go farther than that by saying that a power curve is far more meaningful compared to a torque curve, as the latter requires the gear and diff ratios in order to calculate and extrapolate any meaningful conclusions.

Interesting fact: The 2013 F1 cars had about 280 N/m of torque, less than a 2.0 litre diesel engine found in a VW Golf...

 

You win some you lose some.

All good news.

for Mclaren a chance to get all the data and work on it and try to refine and update whatever needed including the ABS issue, its only been 4 years or less since Mclaren actually started collecting actuall production cars data all over the world.

and good news for Porsche winning the lap time and breaking the record.

So far the P1 to me the driver car i always dreamt of and my 918 WP it will be my first open top hypercar and will enjoy driving it and seeing it parked next to the P1.

funny but ture, i went off topic and took out my Viper TA washed it and did some detailing and said to myself this is the third fastest car now at LS (used to be the 1st).

so excited seeing the new ACR at LS.

Mbn

 

Very cool piece of kit and he and his wife are very nice. They came to our stand at Geneva.

That one is a Biz Jet for the road.

On the track as you note none of these will come close to a GT3/E nor will any of them do it for lap after lap for 24. The interesting thing that we're learning as we move towards building our LMP1 is that massive torque and completely different gearing is what you need to move a race car especially one that makes massive downforce. We pull from 1000 RPM and shift normally at 4.5K as above that restrictors make the inlet air go supersonic and Torque falls off. On the straight we'll go a bit higher but that's why LMP1's seem to short shift. Sort of Petrol as Diesel. As always real racing will tell. Our first one is at the end of the month at The Ring.

If any of you are there stop by our pit and say Hello.

 

Had a nice talk with the McLaren guys who also came by our stand. The GTR is very nice but the F1 remains the one for me and the one on their stand was breathtaking. They have high hopes for their new lower priced one and I hope it's all they wish. The Ford guys also came by and the new GT is pretty cool. Interesting that they also went TTV6. The key is compact engine, better aero. Personally I think an non hybrid P1/918/La weighing 1000lb less then they do would be fantastic. Porsche is building one not sure that McLaren and Ferrari will.

Cheers

 

True.

With high torque note how quickly the shifts come.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtJ7YshJDuM&feature=em-share_video_user

 

For Mclaren and its P1, I'm afraid the final nail in the coffin could be the "potential" Top Gear trio track test.

Let's say they do the testing in a long F1 GP track like Spa, which is what Mclaren cultists have been begging for, and the LaF is the fastest with the P1 comes in second place. Or worse yet, LaF is the fastest and the P1 comes in last. What then for Mclaren and its "all-conquering" P1?

Subjectively, all of the magazines have chosen the LaF over the 918 and P1 (Evo chose 918 over P1, CAR chose LaF over P1, Top Gear chose LaF over 918 and then P1). Empirically, the 918 has proven that it is the faster car compared to the P1 on "shorter" tracks (eg. if you consider Laguna Seca to be a short track).

As far as 918 is concerned, it's not a big deal for Porsche if it loses at a longer track (as I expect it would with the least amount of horsepower of the 3). Porsche never made bold claims about the 918 being the fastest car in the world. While it's great that the 918 continues to beat the P1 on track comparisons, its greatest trump card is that it is insanely efficient (67mpg) and luxurious (open top driving) all at the same time.

 

I'm just going to judge from the forza 5 I've played, so don't take this too seriously ok. But even on Spa and that corner straight you get to before the finish line, I've never been able to go past 150 on race tires and still keep it from going into the wall, so I don't think the P1 will have that much of a lead on any of them (and this is coming from a guy who got 6:59 on the ring with standard tires and 1:30 at LS).
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For sheer collectability, I would have picked the LaFerrari. For sheering performance, I would have bought the SCG003.

I picked the 918 simply because it's the best compromise available. The performance envelope is big enough not to matter, and the creature comfort among the cars are second to none.

Am I happy with the test performance of the 918, yeah a bit, but I have to imagine Dr. Walliser is way more pleased than I am, the tests pretty much validated his choice to forgot top end acceleration for performance down low/mid range, which he took quick a bit of flak for on designing the 918.

Porsche races sports car for a living, I bet they know quite a bit on what's important.

 

Having collected cars for a while and knowing a bit about that market, keeping in mind the max SCG 003S's there will be is around 15-20 and knowing what I've been offered for P 4/5 and P 4/5C there is NO question that SCG 003S's will be worth a LOT more than a La Ferrari 20 years on especially if one does well in real races. There is a HUGE difference between pieces of history with real race or MAJOR Concous History and Supercars.

This May Chassis 001 is going to drive through Nurburgring into the paddock where it's road wing, wheels and tires, etc. will be swapped out for her race gear and rollcage. She will race for 24 Hours. After the race she'll have her road gear swapped back, her stickers removed and she'll drive into Villa d'Este for that concous which is on the weekend after the 24. That's not something a La Ferrari will EVER do.

Cheers

 

There is no such thing as a "power" curve. Engines only make one thing, torque. Horsepower is merely a mathematical equation of torque and engine speed.

Drive 2 cars with equal peak HP numbers but with different torque curves and I guarantee you will say the more powerful car is the one with more low end torque and a flat torque curve.

 

What he proved is that the Porsche can maintain Hot Lap mode for 1:31 over a 2.2 mile track. Porsche technicians asked him to drive 1 hot lap and then 2 recovery laps per lap record attempt. So I'm still curious what the 918 can do on a larger track or over multiple laps. Considering how close the P1 was it's still plausible the P1 could beat the 918 on a larger track when the 918 has to switch out of hot lap mode or if the race was run over multiple laps. Porsche says hot lap mode helps them achieve a 4 second difference on the ring but they don't state how much of the lap is run in hot lap mode. It might be that they can only do 1/4 of the ring in hot lap mode but that could be enough to get that extra 4 seconds.

BUT, I'm not trying to take anything away from the 918, I'm just curious where it's limits actually show up and whether the P1 has any real advantage in those situations or not. I absolutely love my P1. If I had unlimited money I'd buy the 918 as well.

 

Race Mode was designed specifically for track use. They could easily have positioned the bumper and lights to legal heights in something equivalent to race mode if they wanted to. They simply chose not to because it wasn't necessary.

 

It would be interesting to see how the 918 stack up against the P1 in at a track like Spa. I am almost certain the P1 would be faster at Monza considering it's all about top end power. But then, I have a hunch that the LaF would be even faster than the P1 at Monza with its mighty V-12.

As you can see in the 918 N-Ring record lap, the 918 was in Hot Lap mode most of the time, that is until it reached the back straight away and Mark Lieb switched into Sport mode.

 

I don't think it's a matter of refining and updating. It will surely help but brakes based passive torque vectoring will never be as precise as an E-Diff or one E-Motor per wheel and creates a lot of the problems the P1 and all other Macs are suffering from IMO. Probably this ABS inconsistency as well. It's just an inferior solution as 2wd are compared to 4wd, 2ws to 4ws, regen braking to non RB, NA engines responses to comparable turbos, etc