Massa claims Merc detuning Williams

Ruh Roh!

This ain't gonna go down too well.

Massa questions Merc engine equality


Felipe Massa admits he cannot say with 100 percent certainty that Williams have the same engine as the Mercedes works team.

Williams finished the 2014 season as the fastest car behind Merc and many backed them to keep that position at the start of the season opener in Australia this weekend.

However, they were surpassed by Ferrari at Melbourne with Sebastian Vettel claiming the final podium spot and Massa only fourth, and Paddy Power has now made the Italian outfit second favourites in their latest market offering.

Massa admits Williams will need to have the best possible engine available if they are going to keep Ferrari behind them.

 

Felipe Massa admits he cannot say with 100 percent certainty that Williams have the same engine as the Mercedes works team.

somehow becomes

Massa questions Merc engine equality

which somehow becomes

Massa claims Merc detuning Williams.

Of course he doesn't know with 100% certainty... he doesn't build the engines, nor does he deliver them to customers.

 

Isn't that what Massa is saying? He's saying in public the Merc team may be getting a more powerful engine than Williams. Why else would he say it?

If I'm giving one team a more powerful engine, am I not detuning the other for some advantage of the first?

 

Today I learned that someone actually believes Mercedes would give a customer team the same engine it puts in its own cars.

 

LOL!

True... but you don't say this in public.

I have always believed that customer engines never get the same treatment as their own teams. It's just not something you say in public as it sounds like F1 is just a predetermined outcome.

 

When I was in Maranello inside the F1 department (December) they were building all of the new engines by hand, all internals are practically chrome in appearance. They clearly said that after bench testing, Ferrari keeps the best of the batch and the others go to Sauber. No detuning was mentioned and I have no idea what the difference was in terms of performance. But I thought it was interesting. Perhaps Merc has a larger performance spread on the bench?

 

Yeah.

Massa deserves the best, I have always liked him.

Nice job for Vettel, but good Christmas I hope the LR tire changer is now a busboy across the street from the Modena factory.

 

LR wheel got hit on lap 1 pretty hard, I'd put money on something being damaged in that bump over the wheel changer making an error.

 

I completely agree.

 

You may be right, but I disagree.

Reading the article IMO sounds like he was asked a loaded question "are you getting the same engines" and that was his response. It doesn't sound like he went out of his way to make some statement suggesting they aren't making the same power.

Even in the article he said ""So I really hope that we really have the same engine, which I really don't see why we don't have."

 

I believe it, perhaps naively, but I believe it.

From what I gather they are contractually obligated to deliver the same engines. I imagine if any team thought they could prove otherwise and be able to skip out on a part of their bill for engines at the end of the year, they'd do so (especially given how tight some of these teams' budgets are). There also may or may not be something in the rulebook about this.

Of course Merc is in a better position to tailor their car to the package (or package the engine to better fit their car, perhaps to the detriment of other designs), and they undoubtedly have a better understanding of its performance and ideal gearing/efficiency/whatnots. Still, last year I believe Williams often had higher top end than the entirety of the field, including Mercedes, which would indicate anything but being down on power. That said, Force India and McLaren couldn't seem to do much with it.

 

Wow!
One race out of twenty and Massa is already crying wolf, so sad.

 

+1

 

Me too. Well said.

 

Doesn't mercedes just supply the engine, it's up to Williams to set it up the way they best see fit?

 

+2

One, somewhat odd in terms of the track, race and the TFHB is already out in force!

Of course Phil can't be "sure" they get the same engines, what is he meant to say?

It's worth noting however that the PU providers can only homologate one version of their units. They're all built to the same spec. Now, they almost certainly run them on the dyno before shipment, and *maybe* Merc keep the "best" for themselves, but I'd bet there's no more than a handful or so of differences in HP between all of them.

Gotta love the TFHB!
Cheers,
Ian

 

So, Massa has read the book of excuses...

 

Generally a customer is not allowed to do anything but bolt it in.

 

Don't understand Massa's issue. There is a reason why Ferrari fired him and it's not because he was too fast...

 

I believe Massa forgot that the engine is only a percentage of performance/results or how all the other variables weight in such as the chassis. I wonder how Williams will react to his assessment/claims? I care more about Williams than I do about a crying driver looking for excuses like Massa.

 

Since they have a comfortable gap, I'm sure Merc will improve subsequent engines for Williams

 

+1 not a fire here at all. Innocuous at best.

 

^ This

Which is why Red Bull tried to move away from Ferrari and take "alpha dog" at Renault.

Also this is why Mclaren tried to move away from Mercedes once Mercedes got dedicated to win WCC.

With the importance of aero design of the cooling components for the intake plumbing in addition to the cooling for the engine itself, any alternative car design will be inferior to the exact same engine placed in the chassis it was designed for.

 

I beg to differ. Williams chassis is designed exactly and absolutely to take the Merc PU. It *may* be a little different in year one (see; McSputter ) but with a year under their belt they know what they're doing. They also have their own dedicated team of Merc engineers, and I'm certain they're not 'hiding' anything.

Dear ol' Phil's comments mean nothing more than he can't (obviously) be "100% certain" that their lumps are the same as the others. An honest answer, not whining, not crying, just being truthful.

Cheers,
Oan

 

I said it in another thread somewhere, but I just don't believe that the Williams car itself is that inferior to be that uncompetetive with the Factory Merc squad. I also really can't see being down to mapping and what not.

I mean I guess I could be wrong... but on the surface... I think Massa may have a gripe. There's just so much disparity between the Merc teams. I'd really like to know what that difference really is made up of.