375+ # 0384

The Ohio court has basically said. Then OC & BC entered into a contract. That contract has a venue clause (London) if you have a problem both sides agreed to settle it there.
But they left open the gate for KKL/Joe to further pursue litigation in Ohio.
IF the HOA is found invalid. Meaning US title still in question.

It's funny but if Wexner wins on his claim I can't see how that will not help the OC in London case.

From what I read the judge today has know idea what's going on. It will take him awhile to get up to speed.

Bring your wallet.

 

the HOA has performance clauses for the litigants and drop dead dates which had lapsed...

thus far there has been no presentation by any litigants that they performed as agreed and by the agreed date certain... or has there been an agreement to extension of time ( by anyone ) making the HOA dead

 

Right, there are some arguments so it is not a slam dunk, but London could still consider it binding and valid. That decision in favor of the HOA could be based on previous arguments Bill has much more eloquently presented here. If/when they do uphold the HOA in London the Ohio Court has already indicated their position on further litigating matters there.

Therefore, London does potentially have control over the outcome in Ohio under some circumstances, and those "ifs" are not too far fetched.

>8^)
ER

 

Indeed not to far fetched but will be fascinating to see if any curve balls come from any of the parties. An example will be the Zanotti factor. Hell it might suit the BC to claim they got the car from Zanotti and as such cut Ford/ Kleve etc. out of the picture. Not too unlikely when you consider all of the sundry claims. Furthermore both mediation and full disclosure can only truly happen if good faith is used by all parties and with what we know that is highly unlikely.

Based on Enigma's post I would guess we won't hear from Joe for a while but will we hear from various entities that claim to be "NOT Chris Gardner" like we our friend from Monaco, Max Vito, Tutis, Chrikky, Flobert and many many others but sing like a canary .........

 

Do you care about another honorable mans stolen property? Swatters put his pants on one leg at a time we all make contributions.

 

mbunasean, is it your position (based on your last post) that Kleve was not paid any money (either directly or through his agent, Daniels) or that the amount was not adequate? It is generally the case in civil law jurisdictions that there are three elements to a valid sale, consent, object and price. When these three elements are met (absent contractual language to the contrary) title passes even though the price has not been paid. This issue often arises in the case of the loss of thing, e.g., who bears the loss. The public policy may be different in your jurisdiction.

So, if someone paid, are you saying Kleve did not intend to sell?

If Kleve did intend to sell and he was paid, was the amount not adequate?

If Kleve did intend to sell and he was paid, why is there still talk of theft? Wouldn't this event get rid of that issue?

 

Mbunasean can answer the question himself but I want to note the following.
Post 158 of this thread specifically deals with the issue of the 1999 sale and I certainly made up my mind that there was never any legal form of sale by any measure. KK intended to repatriate the vehicle or sell it for $2.5 mil, later raised to $3 million because of offers he "believed" he received. Since neither US$2.5 million nor any sign of #0384AM the contract cannot have been fulfilled. The US$625,000 payment was never received by KK so again it can be argued that the contract was never fulfilled. Throughout this either Mark Daniels was out of his depth OR he was simply running a scam. From my perspective a sale of this scope must have a contract of sale and if that contract isn't fulfilled then ergo there has been no sale. If you have looked into the sale and have an alternative argument, I am certain that many of us would be really keen to hear it. I would.

 

I just wondered about the prior transactions. If there is an agency agreement (apparent or specific, disclosed or undisclosed) would that bind Kleve to the result? If there is a binding agency agreement why isn't the focus on the agent? If Kleve was incapable of exercising the necessary discretion to follow the transactions then whose fault is that? Should there have been a curator? I don't know.

There are interesting twists and turns, each by itself would make for an interesting story. Plug in $18M and I guess the vultures come out to fight to the death.

There seem to be several stories; 1) the car by itself is worthy of an article; 2) Kleve the eccentric who may or may not have known what he had and seemed to fall prey to opportunists; and, 3) Swaters, a well known or famous connoisseur of cars, in particular Ferrari's, who may or may not have succumbed to a step across the line when presented with the holy grail of racing Ferrari's.

The Gardner - Ford saga? Not my circus, not my monkeys. Bring the popcorn.

It's just amusing sitting up here in the peanut gallery.

 

Absolutely agree. I believe OJ's theory is that KK didn't receive no cash, cash, cash and like any good pimp thought no cash = no errr ladies/ no deal and assumed that was the end of the matter . Mark Daniels (the agent) was busy spending his US$625k and was incommunicado so there was no verification of anything. And I don't believe Mr Swaters argued that anything else occurred but his heirs certainly think so. I wouldn't chase MD because after all he will have spent the money.......... I would if I was running the scam. No cash there.

Your post was very funny.

 

A levity is always fun at the circus.

 

‘If’ you were running the scam….


Timmmmmmmmmmy, if you where in cohorts with Ocean Joe:
(Now think about this.) I’m not angry. Just wanting answers.

1.) Would you conceal the Ohio Titles?
2.) Would you call it “purging” to throw people off base?
3.) Would you not mention Daniels in your counterclaim?
4.) Would you conceal the 1999 and 2000 Kleve mortgage pay offs?
5.) Would you conceal Lawsons living in Florida after the $625,000k Swaters payment?
6.) Would you call Kleeve's mental illness problem dementia?
7.) Would you call yourself retired, when really unemployed?
8.) Would you continue to never question any of O.J.'s motives....not even once?

Tim, the game is over. You rode in on the wrong horse just like Lawson did. Call it a “Judgement Error”. Or "losing is winning”.

 

Although I think you are a shill poster. I don't normally feed the trolls. I will give it a go.

No it is not my position it is the ONLY position at this moment recognized by Ohio courts and DMV all 50 states Guam and Puerto Rico . The car was reported stolen. A title remains and that title has named owners of the car. Period

Was it stolen? I believe so.

Did Kleeve sign the agreement and cash the check?
Did Swatters knowingly buy a stolen car?

I do not know.

But i do know the the Swatters filed a lawsuit in Ohio. KKL/Joe called bull**** in court before a Jurist.

Neither pushed for judgement. I really thought Swatters camp would nail this thing down with documents. Ask for summary game over Swatters owens the car.

Funny thing that didn't happen.

So the rest of your questions while interesting they never made it into the Ohio proceedings.

Care to fill out your profile so we can get to know you?
Otherwise you will remain a shill.

Please respond.

Dont have any idea of Kleeves intentions. If you have a time machine that can hit 88mph and some gigawatts. Lets be friends.

 

Here's my answer....I am not a shill. Just PM me. I will answer.

 

Umm wasn't talking to you?

Is that you Chris?

Keep track of your screen names my friend.

It helps with your authenticity.

Just Sayin.....

But you are a shill too.

Nice to not meet you.

 

The Interwebs are complicated.

Dont post while drinking or using drugs.

If your IQ is equivalent to room temperature. We will work with you.

 

You may be in the industry but hiding Who you are speaks volumes.
IMHOP makes you less relevant.
Serious people are level and purposeful.
you are a side show.
i don't care to know you.
bye.

 

Spies?

 

In every corner........

 

Who cares.

 

A curious thing happened on the way to the fair, or was it the circus? its hard to tell with some posters.

Ocean Joe may well have been another clown but he was a good clown not a scary clown and was doing it for a pay day like all of us but wasn't simply trying to rip everyone else off. Anyone that has read this thread should perhaps know that there have been two types of clowns, those that want to see Karl Kleve get some form of restitution for the theft of his vehicle and all of the evil clowns actions.

Then there are all of the evil clowns. I bought a car from Chris Gardner and he was the best ya ya ya. I love Chris Gardner, I am not Chris Gardner, even the three + avatars that were Chris Gardner. And now the new evil clown, Mbzgurl who claims everyone that is not a sycophant of Chris Gardner is somehow in wrong. One place Ms. Mbzgurl went wrong is to accuse me of being a dinky car collector. Anyone that has read this thread for long enough will remember something about the term "dinky car collector".
And if you don't know what I am talking about, please do ask.

Always remember that at any circus there are the funny happy clowns and then there is the scary steal your lollypop/Ferrari clowns.

 

Timmmmmmy, Ford and Gardner were partners who together paid what I see as a small sum of money for a large share of the Kleve proceeds. They fell out because one was happy with 50% and the other was not and they both now want 100%.

You need to explain why you see one as good and the other as evil as they are both just clowns in my book

 

I base a lot of my judgement on the character of their posting. Love him or hate him, Joe has always posted as Joe, while he might be belligerent and perhaps a little too willing to post when he shouldn't, he doesn't hide behind fakey-do names and stupid rhetoric. Certainly Mr. Ford can be foolish but I don't think he is anything other than an average clown, not the ringleader. OTOH the other self-proclaimed chief clown has posted under dozens of avatars, all claiming not to be a clown at all....... And all screaming blue murder about such asinine points as KK was a mental patient etc. which is frankly vulgar considering one should never speak ill of the dead. OR my favorite, the car wasn't stolen (I suppose it was borrowed). And for me that add's up to evil clown in the circus tent analogy.

Having said that, I entirely respect you and as I read it one way, I can understand you might have a different take.

So, anyone want to know about dinky toy collectors? go on, someone take a bite.

Better that than discuss the English cricket team

 

Or any other sport the English invented. Funny how that now days we only ever excell at sports that require sitting down !

I can agree with your analysis on open posting although I am sceptical that everyone who has a pop at saintly Joe is Chris Gardner

 

So has Joe stopped reading the tea leaves? He's been very quiet here after such a dramatic turn of events. I would have thought he would be elated to have the case in front of a judge who is ready to cut through the bull$#!@ and deal with the real issues?

...or maybe that is not so good for him?

>8^)
ER