How far behind is McLaren ?

If the issue is the KERS, which most people claim is one of the main problems, then they can recover more quickly.

The problem with a race car is that every system effects every other system. When you fix one problem, you usually create another. It's a balancing game that takes time -- and with today's testing regime that's one thing they don't have.

There other huge problem is reliability. Without reliability, you can't use track time to learn about the car. Magnesson blowing up was a huge loss. A few more of these embarrassments and Honda may rename the motor Mugen.

It could take years unless they FIA moves to detune Merc.

I personally think the "Alonso / Ron Dennis" thing won't help either. This was a mash-up that Honda wanted. I can't see how oil and water will mix to improve the team. I can't see Alonso really trying to bring the car in 17th.

 

BTW, Ferrari won their last WDC in 2007

I do not have enough fingers to work out when Williams last won anything, even a race!
Pete

 

2012 Spanish GP from pole.

Williams F1 is a legend in F1 and deserve acknowledgement.

 

I, for one, would be very happy to see McLaren running well again in F1. Jenson needs a few good last years before he retires

 

Ever since Ron's return McLaren have steadily gone backwards.

 

One could say the same when Whitmarsh ran the team but the fact is McLaren has seen and achieved more success under Ron.

 

Wait and see it will get better

 

Whitmarsh's last car left the team with 2 podiums. That's what Ron took over. I don't care for McLaren, Whitmarsh or Ron, they should have been ejected from F1 in 2007/8. I'm just stating what has happened since Ron took back over. Personally I'd be betting on more of the same.

 

True -- and its not just on the track. This is the second year in a row with no major sponsor. It's going to be difficult to attract a major without some sort of success on the track.

And, that looks like a ways off.

 

Ron's dreaming of getting big bucks for title sponsorship - It ain't gonna happen

 

Different views/perceptions and neither one feed my dogs.

 

Whitmarsh got the team into the ***** to start with. Complete idiot IMO. Ron now has to undo all his work.
Pete
ps: Texasmr2, I would put McLaren higher up the ladder than Williams when it comes to dishing out acknowledgements.

 

Leading from the rear?

No seriously.... just look at the F up over the drivers for this year and you can see Ron is just to anal and controlling for today's world. He's a bottleneck.

 

Yep, McLaren running last and the engine's a POS, feel sorry for Jenson but it couldn't happen to a better team ......... cheats, liars, thieves, how soon we forget.

Alonso gets them a $100M fine and is then welcomed back into the fold, I hope they have trouble making the 107% rule

 

They have lots of money and I suppose they aren't idiots so they wouldn't be so far behind if they weren't trying some sort of advanced tech. My guess is that once they get it working they'll bounce back quickly.

 

I think this relationship might end up going like the Renault/RB's one, where when they win it's because of the chassis, when otherwise it's the engine's fault. In the end both Renault and Honda might end up going all alone.

 

Could be. In any case I suspect that Honda is looking at an issue on the electric side of the PU that prevents them from turning up the wick on the IC motor. Depending on what the problem is Honda/McLaren could be back soon or be in the weeds for the season.

 

+1

 

Without stolen data from Ferrari, these guys would have to look all the way back to the 1990's for their last success and who knows who they stole that from.

Ron reminds me of George Steinbrenner. At least George saw the light after his banishment from day to day operations. George finally quit meddling with things when he came back and his teams responded by winning several world championships.

Ron and Jerry Jones should learn something from George.

 

+2

Honda did not board a "ship of fools".

 

Plus they finished 2012 season with the fastest car on the grid
Then the idiot Whitmarsh gambled on a new direction for the
design and the car came out S**t in 2013 Hence got canned

 

I think we can all agree that Whitmarsh's placement was a poor choice for the team but all blame should not fall in his shoulders, inmo of course.

 

The claim being made was about how McLaren are a team who are the masters of bouncing back "in the blink of an eye", however, history shows this not to be true.

I would never make any claim that Ferrari are the masters of bouncing back "in the blink of an eye" (and history, as you have shown, supports that too! )

 

When you are the boss, yes you should take the blame.
Pete

 

Very fair point
Pete