Bad fuel, dealer advice

Hello, a good lady friend has a new Audi A3 which abruptly began running very poorly where it wouldn't accelerate and ran rough, she limped into her parking space and upon shut down she noticed a burning smell and the aroma of fuel. When the tow truck arrived the car refused to start. The dealer claims bad fuel and wants $300 to drain and refill the tank. I spoke with the dealer today and any damage from the alleged bad fuel would not be covered under warranty and since she smelled both burning and fuel its safe to assume there is damage. They claim the fuel was tested at their service facility and showed 17% ethanol content and of course once the fuel is drained all evidence is gone.

I'm having them wait and I ordered a fuel test kit from Blackstone labs. Am I overreacting? Having never purchased bad fuel anywhere I'm having a hard time buying it. The said fuel was purchased from a Racetrack station in south Florida and during tourist season they must receive a truck every couple of days. Any advice?

 

Damage from bad fuel is often covered by insurance.

 

Volume at the station would not effect trash and/or water in the underground storage tanks. There are filters and strainers, but how often are they serviced.

I can see bad fuel...it happens.
Glad she made it home...you can't burn water.

 

Depending on the policy, yes it's occasionally seen as a coverable loss under the comprehensive category and is subject to a deductible. There was a lot of this going on about 6-8 years ago especially in rural areas where straight water was added to the gas station storage tanks (done by the owner of the station to stretch the fuel a bit). Most conjectured it was a direct response to the sharply rising cost of fuel. As if the crap gas wasn't crappy enough right.

 

I worked for a time where many stations were not far above the watertable, much as I suspect FL is. Water in fuel was very common, especially after heavy rains and we saw it commonly. Depending on Ins. Co and type of policy and of course how it was sold to them insurance companies would often cover it.

But, bad fuel is a very vague diagnosis. I would want more specificity.

 

Thanks for the responses guys. When I questioned the service rep what the onboard computer had in terms of error codes he said that after extended cranking the car started and showed cylinder(s) misfire. These new cars must show more info like fuel pressure, clogged filters etc. and they never mentioned water, only excessive ethanol. The rep said that once the tank is drained and refilled it might be fine. It's hard to believe an ethanol level from 10% (normal) to 17% would take out the cars fuel system. Still sounds like BS to me.

 

I agree

 

I'm not a mechanic and had to look up how to spell mechanic.

But I did have a tank of bad fuel on my Honda Prelude 25 years ago. It ran like crap. Wouldn't accelerate, couldn't drive on the highway. The car wasn't over a few years old. I filled it with premium and kept chugging along when miraculously, it got better and I never had the problem again. Probably not the best decision of my life to keep driving, but I was poor and far from home.

 

Where did she get the fuel? Did she just fill up? Has she contacted the station? If that was the source there would likely be others involved as well. If the station sold bad gas (water in fuel) they would likely be responsible (been there, done that). How could the gas get from 10% to 17% only in her car?

 

I agree with johnk: it seems like I hear one or two stories a year about some gas station pumping contaminated fuel and paying for the repairs.

 

The aroma of fuel its the one that gets me. Bad fuel or not, you should not be able to smell any fuel.
Not too sure about the 2014-15 cars, the Audi had a real run of bad high pressure injector pumps and camshafts. The injector pump follower that rides on the cam, would get a hole worn in it, then the camshaft lobe gets damaged requiring replacement of both. I believe the warrenty was extended on these car to cover this issue.

What year is the car?

If that's the case, she must have had warning signs that something was wrong in the past. Lean faults, or low fuel system pressure are usualy the tell tails.

 

It happened to me years ago at a Texaco.
They paid to have the tank dropped and cleaned plus a full flush of the system.

The explanation was that the incorrect amount (way too much) of additive was added to one truckload.
They had a string of cars dieing on the freeway leading away from the station.

 

The Clean Air Act prohibits selling more than 10% ethanol in E-10 blended gasoline and 15% ethanol in E-15 blended gasoline. The gas station and their supply chain are responsible and probably have insurance to cover this situation. Your friends leverage over them is a report to EPA and the state environmental agency which the station will not want due to possibility of a fine.

 

Ethanol is hygroscopic. There is also phase separation too, If a saturated blend drops in either temperature or percentage of ethanol, the water will start to precipitate (fall) out of the solution and settle at the bottom of the tank. This water will be mixed with ethanol since ethanol bonds more easily with water than gasoline. The gasoline mixture at the top will still be saturated. It will continue to precipitate out a water/ethanol mixture as the percentage of ethanol drops until there is either no more water in the gasoline, or another saturation point is reached (if the temperature is rising at the same time, for example). This is what is referred to as a phase separation. A phase separation can occur in a storage tank or in a vehicle's gas tank.

Also if you suspect it was from a station, you need to contact the weights and measure dept of that state. You'll find the info usually on a sticker at the pump, or looking on the web.

 

Nothing about all this sounds fully kosher to me.....

I would get a second opinion (maybe from a good independent shop, as opposed to an Audi dealership)

 

I figured on major misfires dumping unburned fuel.

 

Ok, I called the suspect gas station and there were no other reports of bad fuel, the Race Trac folks were nice and more than willing to open a case if necessary to cover the repairs. For now I'm going to pick up a few tank samples and have them analyzed simply because I'm curious who's telling the truth here. Comprehensive is also an option for repair minus the deductible and probably is the quickest and easiest path to get her car back but honestly I don't believe the dealer has the equipment on hand to accurately measure fuel ethanol content. Updates to follow....

 

Frankly Mike, I think the Dealership is trying to screw you over.

Regardless....... just the charge of $300 to drain / re-fill the tank is nuts. Unless they are going to flush it out, inspect/verify the pump & filter are okay, and then re-fill it with nitro-methane or jet fuel .

Let's see...... 15 minutes of labor to drain the tank, and 15 gallons of fuel at $3/gal..... do the math for yourself. There is no reason this should total over $100.

Hope it works out for you.

 

Update: I hired a lab in Miami to check the fuel samples and they concluded the ethanol content to be 8% and the driveability (D4814) index at 468, basically it fits a perfectly fine pump fuel profile. I shared this with the dealer and they still insist on draining the tank, refilling to see if it will run. The dealer claims there are no codes hence the fuel drain idea. Still seems like a load of BS to me. Now they want to begin charging my friend $75 a day for the loaner if they don't start working on the car. Makes no sense to drain perfectly good fuel. I'm now trying to go up the Audi ladder to see if I can get anywhere.

 

One of the easiest diagnostic exercises in the business is a motor that does not start and they have proven themselves not to be up to the job.

Is the car under warranty? Are there any other choices to bring it to to get it fixed?


Getting it out of there would be my choice.

 

Funny, it's a new Audi A3 and under warranty. Makes absolutely no sense to me, if the car won't run on lab tested proven good fuel why the hell would it run on a different tank of good fuel.

 

Drain the fuel and be done with it. What is the big deal of argueing over a tank of gas??

 

Because the dealer says any damage to the fuel system caused by the so called bad fuel is not covered under warranty. If the engine refuses to run on known good fuel it will of course not run on the replacement good fuel. The dealer will then have a blank check for the repair.

 

Have them drain and refill with the understanding that if it doesn't solve the problem, there is NO charge for the drain and refill as it didn't solve the problem. It is their advice, let them prove their worth. If they don't agree, get the car outta there ASAP as you don't need them practicing/guessing on your car on your dime.

Racetrac.......where does their fuel come from?

 

In the future stick to tier one fuels, RaceTrac is not one of them.

Top Tier Gasoline