Alfa 4C - "Without The Heart We Would Be Mere Machines"

No more speculation! We roll the U.S.-spec Alfa 4C onto a set of scales.

 

My biggest issue has been with Alfa USA the last 2 years and the way some of the dealers marked up the cars.

Luckily my two dealers in Vegas sold the cars at MSRP. Once again, just like Ferrari, don't buy a car in LA!!!

Just to give you a hint, my Vegas dealer offered me 2 cars he just got in ... one red one white. I don't care for white cars but they are rare.

Both were at MSRP. At the same time a dealer in LA had a white one for $120K! People in California just get reemed.

I bought mine at MSRP (and got a great trade value on my Corvette C7) and the other one went at MSRP to a guy in Chicago.

 

Yes that wheel might be awesome but it does NOT look like an Alfa wheel ...
Pete

 

Go to Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums, they are already lapping tracks ...
Pete

 

Excellent, now we know for sure what we all guessed
usa spec 4c is 2500 lbs

 

And the Cayman is 650 lbs heavier.

Thank you Alfa!

 

Agree. There is no better sounding engine than a 1950 159 ... nothing, er, except maybe the BRM v16 when on boost. I was fortunate to stand right behind one, I think the same car that Marc Gene drove, while they warmed it up at Phillip Island and it simply made my automotive life. A massive goal ticked off.

Now I will admit that the sound bite of the 4C sounded a lot better than I expected but there is a trebble or something with the straight 8 of the 159 that has to be heard.
Pete

 

Actually, I did watch the 159M video from Marc Gene.. as well as several other Marc Gene videos... with the 4C.

Race tracks nowadays have noise level restrictions and I agree the old 159s were pretty loud. However while Alfa cannot faithfully duplicate the 159 sounds, I bet Alfa designers took inspiration from the 159. Honestly, what other Alfa model would they prefer to model the 4C after??

I don't think there was any coincidence in these videos appearing together - they were all from 2014. If you listen carefully to the 159M on the move and the few trackside video sequences of the 4C, you will hear similarities.

C'mon, are you telling me if you were designing the 4C exhaust note you wouldn't bother to tune the exhaust to resemble the 159 if you had a choice? The cars in the audio clips I prepared do sound similar.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzexh_EgPdQ]Alfa Romeo 4C and Marc Gené in Madrid![/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2fIrhAYLug]Alfa Romeo 4C and Marc Gené on the racetrack![/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zI3_UC6nbsE]Marc Gené and Carlos Latre at the Montmeló F1 circuit with a 4C[/ame]

 

Boxerman, I understand where you are coming from. I also agree that to have a constructive debate, people have to accompany their comments with some reasoned bases and avoid personal attacks or name-calling.

I do think the Lotus cars are quite wonderful in their own rights but I also believe even Lotus recognizes the limitations and financial shortcomings of marketing cars restricted to track and competition appeal. So they have the Evora and air conditioning, air bags...etc. And that's why I believe Alfa designed the 4C the way they did... in a manner that you felt was half-cooked or not fully-baked. Again, I want to emphasize that I believe Lotus also understands Alfa's imperative.

I'm familiar with the club racing mentality. Club racers are willing and happy to experiment with doing their own modifications to their equipment, so long as the basic architecture of their machine is sound and provides fertile ground for aftermarket tuning. This same formula has been followed in many hobbyist sectors and it works better financially for suppliers that need sufficient volume in mainstream consumer products in order to stay in the game for the hobbyists. Even Ferrari has had to do road cars in order to justify their racing activities.

Alfa Romeo needs the 4C do perform multiple duties as a halo (flagship) car that appeals to both track racers and non-racing enthusiasts who will like the car enough to show it off to the general public, on public roads. Making the 4C too aggressive a track car will compromise the success of the 4C's marketing mission. Alfa needs to build up its passenger vehicle offerings and balance sheet before it can make focused race cars again.

BTW, what the heck is a "GBU"?

 

Surely it is impossible for a 4 cylinder to sound like a straight 8 ... ?

But I do think the 4c sounds great.
Pete

 

GBU

The Good The Bad The Ugly. Every car has it in different quantities on various attributes.

My half cooked comments do not have an effect on car sold tot he gneral public. For example better or more ride compliance would make it an easier car to live with, and driveable say in the NE. We also know that great compliance with ec;llend dampers makes a btteer handling car too.

 

Yes, I know it's counter-intuitive to think a straight-4 can be made to sound like a straight-8 but the fact is that the sound of an engine/exhaust has more to do with the firing order of the cylinders than with other design aspects.

I agree with Boxerman that designers have latitude in choosing how the car sounds. From the comments of journos and 4C owners, the car sounds like no other car and I think it is an interesting blend of the sounds of the 158/159 era combined with unabashed noises from a modern turbocharger.

Finally, an interesting aside to Alfa straight-8s is that the factory apparently also created some older straight-8s from pairing up 2 inline-4 engines with separate camshafts, superchargers and a common camdrive set between the 2 halves of those engines. Food for thought.

 

The straight 8s were made from 2 4cyl engines because you could essentialy cast two 4cyl blocks and weld. More importantly a long crank and cam as in a straight 8 with the metals at the time woudl twist so much withnb revs that firing orders and timing were virtualy impossible to get right. Two 4 cyls with can drives in the middle resolve this. I think duesenbergs are the same.

As to sound, the GTv6 euro is probably the best sounding engine exhaust combo ever.
My mothers old 71 GtV 1750 sounded great too.
Mazda woked on shaping mufflers to get a signature sound on the miata.
Lotus doesent care, the motor is just muffled, although a stage 2 ehaust sounds fantastic till you hit the highway and then its pure drone.

Possibly the short run on a me car from motor to exhaust outlet creates limitation on tuning sound.

Lots of mtoorcycles run aftermarket exhausts, most just make more noise and blare.
But put a pair or termingnoni cf ovals on ducati or even a honda vfr and its pure mechanical opera.

If you are NA highly tuned the exhaust has to be optimised for the engine to cretae scavanging, most loud harley exhaust actualy make the motor less powerful. On a turbo or Supercahrged car, scavanging not really thta important, you just wnat to reduce back pressure.

For me the 4c, right exhaust some cams to lift redline from 6500 to low 7s, some boost, 300+ hp lighter wheels or suspension complaince, different animal. Maybe it just needs a reflash to gett he revs and power. And for the 30lbs of weigth saved by going to a stick make mine stick please.

My E46 M3 I always found dull and lazy to repsond with numb steering, even thought the press loved it. A tire change and the helm became much mroe responsive(not lotus or boxer, but at least somehting). A reflash and while total power only rose 10% the spread widened drasticaly including Tq, it felt like another 50% and completly transformed the car.

The first of the new minis that were supercharged, they sold a dealer installed head/cam and reflash that seriouly upped the ante. Lets se what fiat/Alfa or the aftermarket comes up with, the bones look great. If I spet 60k on the car,and there were propery enginered autodelta upgrades in terms of power and suspension for 10K that would be a winner for me.

 

Oh OK, at first I thought you might have been referring to air force ordnance. LOL.

The 19/18 setup is likely a bit too aggressive for this light car. I also find the bigger wheels verging on looking cartoonish. But maybe that was what their marketing information indicated, that buyers would be disappointed at smaller numbers, 18/17 wheels. Unfortunately, they didn't make a 17" version of the iconic 5-hole design, possibly because they feared it would compromise sales of the 19" version.

 

Yes, there's very little room behind the engine to get too fancy with the exhaust plumbing.

OTOH I also know a little bit about the acoustics behind trumpets and other "brass" music instruments. You can really change the sound of a brass instrument by changing the type of metal used, how thick the wall of the tubing is, whether it has constant or graduated thickness, the width of the bore, the manner in which the bore is opened up and how long the instrument is. It would be very interesting if it were possible to talk to the folks who design the exhaust system.

Sounds like a good plan to me, except for the stick shift part. I think the rumoured software-driven power boost will happen. The nice thing about this car is that it combines a measured amount of modern technology convenience with old school simplicity.

 

And number of fires per revolution. Therefore a straight eight should sound "faster" than a straight 4, ie. a straight 8 at 1000 rpm should sound like a straight 4 at 2000 rpm.

So maybe in your sound clips they do sound similar-ish but if somebody blips a 159F1 engine to 5000 rpm your 4C will have to pull 10,000 rpm to even sound similar.

Saying all that a Ducati twin can sound very much like a well tuned v8 ... so maybe our ears can be tricked

Yes the 8c/2300 and P3 straight eight was designed this way but was always designed as a straight 8. They did not pick up 2 inline-4 cylinder engines and then think about joining them together. Jano, the designer, was a genious. Columbo designed the 159 engine and of course the first Ferrari v12 ...
Pete

 

Duesenbergs were not the same, and neither was the 159F1 engine. But yes the 1930's 8c 2300 and derivatives were as you say, but they were not welded together but cast or bolted together like that.

Completely agree.

Agree.
Pete

 

Yes I agree, the I-8 should emit a higher pitch when revved to the same engine speed as the I-4 however I also imagine the noise pitch from both engines should overlap within their operating envelopes. In the same light, Boxerman's suggestion of a camshaft upgrade and ECU EPROM reflash to increase the engine rev limit and max power should also give the I-4 a broader "noise overlap" with the I-8.

 

One of those things I dotn understand about Fiat/Alfa. You can look at the Ducati or mini model. Part of the appeal is to customise the car according to personal tastes, with manufactuerer devkloped or santioned off the shelf pieces.

Even BMW has akarpovic exhausts and ecu reflashed for its bikes.

This is not some magic formula.

There is so much alfa could do, even if they dont develop it themselvess but sanction it. There should be a whole "autodelta" catalogue for the 4c.

 

Totally agree. But you have to wonder in today's world of regulations if there can really be a true factory performance enhancement aftermarket division.

 

Other mnaufactuerers manage it. No reason not to have exhaust and suspension upgrades froma catalog. These things are devloped by the aftermarket and manufacturer sanctioned. As to reflash, they have those too, just look at a dinian catalog from BMW.

 

Ford Racing, Nismo, Mopar, etc.. no?

 

TRD, Dinian

 

Alpina and Abarth

 

I saw a 4C outside Buca di Beppo in Houston on Saturday night. Looks even better in person.

Question. I was looking at the detail pics for this car on ebay and noticed this sticker that advises keeping total weight including passengers below 344 lbs. Does this mean that if you weigh 225lbs your passenger must weigh less than 119? Are all cars like this and I've never noticed or is this a fairly low weight limit? What happens if you exceed it?

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