Official Countach Value Thread

I'll take a stab at this becasue the definition of a true lambo guy vs a flipper may need definition. THe later is "accused" to create bubbles that hurt "true onwers"

I guess the difference is that a "true lambo" guy or a "non flipper" is someone whose primary motivation is to sell a car in the trend of prior sales (~+-10%) out of one of the following:
1. Health changes
2. Renewing the collection
3. Getting bored with the car
4. Financial difficulties
5. Change in lifestyle

As to for the flipper the main reason is only one:
1. Buy a car to resell quickly at a large profit >10% in less than 6 months to 1 year. they can be pros or individuals jumping on the latest hot thing.

So in my mind a flipper can easily be identified.

I am in the camp thinking that flippers are the black sheep of car markets like any other markets although they create opportunities for the astute who spot the approaching cliff they always create.

Not that I have skin in the game in the cars business but I can relate to real estate or equities which I know. Flippers inevitably canibalize and destroy their own market.

I know many will say "who cares! buyers -sellers.. car worth what it sells for at that time".. etc.. All of this in non sense. Just like any markets, equities, real estate etc, there are trends that jolts destroy because speculative gains takes over value and disrupt a steady state.

It is always annoying to see your asset value fluctuate widly or being caught having to sell something in a downdraft created by others.

Is it bad yes. Have we all been flippers on something? you bet! We did not get to make money without a little bit of speculation somewhere. But each of us has an holy grale to respect and here, I guess car is it.

 

This is the biggest load of crap I've read on here in a while.

What exactly do you think a "Private Party Sale" is?

It's when a private individual, aka a private party - NOT a dealer and NOT and auction - sells a car to anyone. That private party can list his or her car on eBay, Autotrader, the local newspaper, etc. and it is still a private party sale because by definition, the seller is a private party.

The internet has allowed private party sales to flourish like never before because never before has one individual had so much access to such a large pool of buyers.

Or are you trying to talk about something known as "Private Treaty Sales" which is something completely different but again, not what you're discussing. Ask Joe or another high level broker what that means.

 

Great post. I agree with a lot of it.

I have to say that I owned my Countach for a year and it was simply not the car for me. It was a spectacular example but I simply was not prepared for that car. It got way too much attention and was such a freaking circus. My F40 is nothing compared to a Countach in terms of what a distraction on the road it is. I know that I'm not the only owner who felt like that.

I do think that I will get back into Countach ownership but it's going to be a different model and I'm going to have a better idea of what to expect in ownership. I buy my cars to drive, not to look at, so I need to choose accordingly.

You'll never know what you're going to fall in love with until you have it and so there is naturally some trial and error in getting there and building the right collection.

 

<<It got way too much attention and was such a freaking circus. >>
LOL
yep. I know exactly what you mean. I was not prepared for it either when I bought the car but I learned to cope with it. Sometime thou it is annoying but I now understand it.

It came to the point where I liked mainly getting out only with other lambos or cars that would also get attentions and I ended up driving to events and shows mostly

Now instead of selling or not using the car when we feel the attention would not be welcomed, I bought my wife and I an Aston. I do apreciate the different type of respect that car gets. No crazy behaviors, wild chase on the Hiway, tailgating, red light burnings or crowd gathering. A few still want to race the Aston but the behavior is more tamed and nowhere the craziness that a Countach brings..

 

LOL. Reading that makes me wonder if you were a passenger in my Countach every time drove it.

I will occasionally get some of that in some of my Ferraris but nothing like what life on the roads were like in Countach EVERY SINGLE TIME.

 

Flippers can do as they will, as eventually the car ends up in the hands of an enthusiast who will keep it. As for private party sales, they are far from being over and be rest assured are very much alive and well.

 

I believe the typical Lambo guy doesn&#8217;t really care about current values other than them getting too high (relative to his net worth) for him to really be able to enjoy the car. Talking with several &#8220;drivers&#8221;, weekend Lambo &#8220;enthusiasts&#8221; have slowly dropped off of the forums for fear that their cars don&#8217;t meet the expectations of the self-proclaimed purists and dealers. As harsh as it sounds, and sincerely I mean no offence to anyone, the bashing of every car that comes up for sale has taken a toll on a lot of folks.

Personally I wish the prices were back in the low 100&#8217;s. The rock chips, and scuff marks from all the little kids jumping in the car for photos on the weekend would be a little more tolerable not to mention insurance costs would be lower.

 

So car flippers destroy the market and plunge values down in the long run?

So if a 5000S was 125K before all the flippers came in, and now they are 350K, does this mean that when the flippers destroy the market, a 5000S will be 80K?

 

I'm okay with being called a flipper. But My wife certainly prefers that I flip cars and not women!!

I know I had my lunch handed to me in 2009 with Florida real estate. Lost at least half my net worth over that one. But we all know that was caused by loose credit requirements, not flippers.

It is a bit interesting that an old friend of mine from Iowa (where I am from) bought a Mercedes 300SL Gullwing for $40k. He was complaining just like several of you here about the value skyrocketing to several hundred thousand dollars in the late eighties. I spoke with him a year or so ago when he bought a Offenhauser Sprint car from me. Still has the SL and he is still complaining about the "NEW" ridiculous values. Of course now it is worth a couple million! Not sure how upset he really is over that.

It's all good. I could be labeled worse!

Cheers all.

 

Fair numbers, no surprises.

 

Quite the opposite, and business in this manner is growing, with many of the very best changing hands this way.

 

LMAO.

Well, I guess I responded more diplomatically!

 

Well said.

I'll take Scott out for a drink one day and by the time we get back after Ive extolled the virtues of Private Treaty Sales and demonstrated their potential, he'll be up to speed.

Still laughing at your earlier response.

 

I'm thirty years playing with this stuff ladies and gentlemen. And I always look forward to learning something new. Looking forward to our meeting Joe and learning more about your trade.

As a cautionary however, I went through this private treaty challenge with our Riva back in 2008-2010. The folks offering to sell our boat in this manner disagreed with our valuation. They all felt it was worth $400k. I was asking $1M. We owned it for 4 years prior to then so I guess I was a true Riva owner. Ultimately I was forced to go the auction route because the market experts killed every prospect I cultivated stating it was overpriced. It brought $800k at auction with fees. Which netted us well above the experts value. I couldn't even get Haggerty to insure it for more than $500k because they consulted all the supposed "Experts".

The next year we sold another Riva for exactly $1M. And you guessed it, all the Riva experts were upset with me. Like the amount people paid was something I controlled. Let me just share with you all, when you are standing on the auction block and someone offers you more than you were previously asking you DON"T turn down their bids.

I am most certainly and auction junkie, a close cousin of the flipper. But that's well off topic for Countach values! Sorry.

 

Rivas & Countachs.

Apples & Oranges.

But you are right, sometimes you can do well at auction. If you like the public exposure, then that may be the way to go. Other times, then the market is post-peak, the auctions can be very much a risk.

 

Apples and oranges? Not Really,same buyer, same passion,hand made Italian, strange comment.

 

Both are high end toys. The real risk is not using a reserve.

 

I was at auctions America last weekend and I saw a red anniversary Countach and a red SLS that looked remarkably like your cars. Now, if they were yours and you weren't flipping but rather "auction junkie-ing" I think that it would be interesting to hear what your thought process is. If I remember correctly, both had higher end of market correct bids and neither sold.

So, if they were your cars, what was the deal? Did you want to flip them or just partake in the auction? And given that the high bids were on the upper end of what I consider market correct, why didn't you sell them? I think that you bought the Countach only two weeks ago, right? Did you expect the market to move that much in two weeks or are you already tired of the car?

I'm just trying to get an idea of the psychology.

 

Joe, maybe I should have taken your route and been more diplomatic but on the flip side, I would hope that if I ever spoke so authoritatively on a subject where I was so completely misinformed that someone would do something similarly to save me from further embarrassment.

I learn a ton on here all the time so I value good information tremendously. Likewise, it's hard for me to tolerate obviously bad information. Major character flaw of mine; oh well.

 

Eh,the Countach at auction america belonged Marshall Goldman, Scott car is rosso perlato,

 

Good to know, Nils. But I am curious as to why MG would send a car to auction and then not sell it when they get a market correct offer. It's not like their website doesn't have an audience so it's hard to imagine that they thought they would uncover a new anni buyer at Auctions America.

 

First off they may have thought it was not the correct amount they wanted for the car, and since they, as like me OWN our cars (we don't broker them) we can hold, sell, trade, wait..etc etc etc since the car is ours to do with what we see is best...


As an example, I recall multiple people here telling me how my price for my 1994 SE30 (as Joe put it was priced as un-sellable). I had it priced up there for at least three (3) years...I could wait as long as it took, because I owned it, no flooring, no interest payments, just clear and free title in hand...well it sold..and it sold for what I wanted..and since then several SE30 cars have since traded in the price point and more then I sold mine at recently...


Quite simple..I am SURE it did not cost them a dime to run it through the auction....almost willing to bet AA even took care of the to and back shipping..so with no loss..why not hope for a sale...you never know...

NOT to mention I cant count how many times cars get sold "post Auction" due to them being advertised or seen on the Auction Block..