The new consolidated 308 lowering & suspension upgrade consensus thread

It always seemed that my 87 328 was a little lower than others when sitting side by side... While having some rack work my mechanic pointed out that the car had Carerra Shocks and Springs. This explains for the stiffer ride and most likely the lower stance. If I go back to Koni shocks and org. springs I am certain the ride will be less stiff - but, wouldn't it raise the car as well? Not sure I want to go that route. Car is not tracked and less than 2 hour trips (not long trips). Photo shows with Carerra shocks and springs. Thank you for your comments.
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See post 10 for the answer.

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/308-328/481387-cost-scale-suspension-redo.html#post143807999

 

So is everyone just replacing the bushing where the UPPER/LOWER front/rear a-arms attach to the car?

Is anyone doing the shocks as well?

 

911 track car, Two words...Elephant Racing... Period. They are nearby u which is a bonus. Its unbelievably how there ASP rear arms transform the car especially on a fat pig like a 930. Their Von's dampers are worth every penny too... I hear they are converted bilsteins.

 

If I'm not mistake either carrera or suspension technique were bought out by a conglomerate and then mass produce as QA1's to be marketed in places like summit racing. I forget since those two have been around for decades. Most likely carrera?

 

Like the one on the right?
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Yes it is true.
Bonded bushes can be produced using polyurethane to great precision and the Shore hardness rating can be tuned more accurately than rubber and the polyurethane is longer-lasting than rubber. Lotus did a development program for the Esprit to produce an updated suspension kit using bonded polyurethane bushes. It was a lot of effort and testing on the track. Unfortunately for us, Ferrari dont do this type of thing for older cars.

So, it would be perfectly possible, with a lot of testing, to produce bonded polyurethane bushes which would give equal or better characteristics than the OEM ones. But thats not what is being discussed here. I dont see anyone researching or experimenting with different Shore-rated bushes.

The poly bushes being referred-to here are an entirely different animal to bonded ones. They are graphite-impregnated solid bushes where the material does not flex when the suspension rides. To a large extent the Shore rating is irrelevant on these because the poly is not really forming any part of the springing of the suspension. They are just hinges which offer no resistance and because they have rotating parts in contact, they will wear out.

Using OEM type of bonded bushes, the centre of the bush remains static against the chassis and the outer rotates when the A-arms move up and down. There is no friction nor wear involved and the rubber also acts as a spring.

Superformance do a higher Shore-rated OEM type of bush. That might be a good option for people who want to stiffen-up the suspension.

 

Thats more like it!

 

well if you go with taller diameter tires you will have to lower it just to get back to the stock ride height right? Then lower it again to get the look you want. i cant tell you how much is too low other than if your lower A-arm is canted enough downwards towards your pick up points, your roll center will be near or below the ground plane. this induces more roll but more critically reduces camber gain. some folks just dont care about adverse effects. to do it correctly you move the pick up points or use drop spindles and adapt the steering rack properly. if you drop your car 25-35mm it will be fine without opening up a can of worms.

i say replace all the bushings with rubber plus ball joints, rebuild your konis with adjustable platforms so you can control the ride height when adding the uprated springs. tune the balance with a larger adjustable rear bar, tire pressures and damper settings. Stay away from non-bonded poly because they migrate.


keep in mind dampers wear the minute you put on the car. it can be as little as 10-15k miles before the performance degrades noticeably and should be swapped out before 20-30 miles. most people dont realize this because degradation gradually happens though a long extended period. so unless they are leaking or clunking with oblong eye bushings they ignore them.

now on the fancy 2-3 way dampers....QA1 arent fancy btw. There are reasons you dont see these on production cars even on the hyper ones other than basic electronically controlled ones from the cockpit. if you dont know what your doing they will be useless when it comes to setting them up and to understand the effects of the settings. they do do wonders if you have the time and facility to developed them with preloaded springs. but of course here on fchat, all of us are great drivers behind the wheel and great lovers in bed ...there is absolutely nothing that will convince us otherwise

for what its worth
hf

 

No affiliation, but seemed a propos to this discussion...

Ferrari 308 Light Weight Double Adjustable Coil Over Suspension Package | eBay

 

Doesn't look like it has the right paper weight.

 

You're right on.
If you read the fine print at the bottom of the listing find:

That's quite a cut-out in the modified A-ARM in the last picture of the listing:
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Tell me it isn't so, the forum won't be the same w/o your experience & your 308 upgrades!!

 

Thanks Verell, I remember the start of the QA-1s, (it wasn't me) and all of your work to get them to fit without breaking the rear uprights or having to cut the front upper a arms.
It occurs to me that I have a lot of your finely crafted parts on the "Green Deamon", ventilation bezels, labels, trunk release buckets, bleeder screws, shift rod bushings & an installation tool, cam locks and a few I have likely forgotten.

Thanks, I know the research and development time and all of the foot work required to really make these repair/replacement parts probably pays you .75 cents an hour. You and folks like you are what make Ferrichat a huge help to Ferrari owners.

Now, that I have snuck up on your good side with all of this praise, (well deserved though it may be), I was still hoping that you might come up with a few more temp/ventilation control lever discs. I do want to put the car right before I send it off to a new owner.

Thanks,
chris

 

I have had numerous conversations with Chuck and am using a lot of his products.

If I may get on the soapbox for just a minute, I think it is appropriately supportive to purchase the right stuff from folks like Verell and Chuck, sometimes it may be more expensive but they have really put in the time, offer TONS of free advice and they are worthy of our support.

chris

 

Great thread. Is/has been the next project on my to do list.
shocks, springs, a-arm bushings. I know there will be a lot of while you're in there's.
This is a good read. Thanks to those who are contributing.

 

Hi,
I'm curious as to why the Eibach springs instead of the QA1 springs? Same weights, but QA1 springs are about $25/ spring cheaper. Is there a reason NOT to go with them?

Also, would you go with a 9" long spring? Does that allow you to lower the car? Mine is lowered already (I think via cut springs- was like this when I got it) I love the height now and wondering if the spring length impacts this?
Thanks for any answers/ help.

This thread has motivated me to get this done this spring!!!!

 

I've played around with the Konis quite a bit but I couldn't find parts so I resorted to the gas shock bilstein/Wilber's/ohlins design.

Anyone know where parts for the Konis can be purchased? There was a part I never figured out how to get apart... It had a couple of plastic pipes and the main shaft seal... Which is the only part that seems to need service. The rest of the components can be cleaned and re-used pretty much.

Thanks for any sources... I think I was quoted $300-$400 a shock for a shop to set them up for stiffer springs... That didn't include adjustable perched... Makes the Wilber's seem affordable in comparidon cheerd

 

These are alden eagle shocks. Personally i have a real bad experience with these bought at nick forza

1 they delivered the wrong lenght. I had to sent them back (from Europe, do the math) on my own expense!
2 one shock turned out to be stuck in 5the position. Sending it back (again paying for it myself) they fixed it. The bill however was over 200 us$ WTF!
3 adjusting them is very hard. hardy any 'tick" and heavy

Bottum line: I would not recommend these to anyone.

Currently considdering Intrax

 

Intrax +111. no personal experience on fcars but I know Ron Sims 308 racer developed a wonderful popular intrax street car packages for alfa's. Ron is long time expert race car alfa guru.

I recall there is a Fchat member here with intrax on an early vetro car. Perhaps someone can ask him about these?

 

Please read post# 122, 123, 132, 151, 152, 201, and specially 213 in this thread:
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/technical-q-sponsored-algar-ferrari/39712-suspension-brake-upgrade-time-7.html

The pic shows the QA-1 spring on the left
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And here's the cost of the a bad QA-1 springs.
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Note the date of that post was 10 years ago!!! 12-23-2005, 10:57 PM

I've seen a post or 2 in the last couple of years saying QA1 now has their springs sorted out. Spent too long trying to find it tho.

Luckydynes, Anyone else? Have you recent experience w/QA1 springs?

 

That's good to know Verell, I'm glad they sorted it out, but personally, I stilllike the Eibach springs.