Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

Nothing much other than the laf being tested and the MT 918 vs p1.

 

cheers mate.

 

Cheers.

 

Where did you find that number for the LF?

 

To me it looked like the 918 went the best out of 2nd gear corners like La Source, which are its forte, but the LaF was much better in the faster sweepers like Pouhon and Blanchimont.

Nevertheless I think there is a huge difference between circuits. Big Willow alone is massively different to Laguna Seca, with no corners below 60mph and four above 90mph, three of which are 100+mph, then you have GP circuits, which are a world away from Laguna Seca or Anglesey Coastal. The problem is, magazines rarely test on these circuits.

Brake-wise, when Randy was threshold braking himself, I think the P1 was stopping faster and the traces show this (steeper decel curves) into T11, T9, T8 and T6, but under ABS it wasn't, which is exactly what Randy said. Unfortunately, he couldn't rely on accurate threshold braking given the speeds involved, so when it did slow faster, it slowed short, nowhere more clearly than into T9.
http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a508/sigmafour1/p1vs918lagunaseca_zps3fbu3fly.png

So far the 'ring time quoted for the GT3 RS (see latest issue of Evo), is 7:20, just 5s quicker than Timo Kluck in the GT3. Given the raft of other improvements present in the GT3 RS - more power, more torque, lighter, lower CoG, higher downforce, wider tyres, wider track etc. - it's unclear as to whether any compound, or tyre design element is having a significant impact. Andreas Preuninger has also stated that the tyres on the GT3 RS are taken directly from the 918 on two separate occasions. So either it's the same tyre on the GT3 RS as the 918, or the director of GT car development at Porsche doesn't know what he's talking about.

Evo 208_5 Radar GT3 RS - Evo

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That's completely correct, all other LaF lap times are just rumours, apart from the times C&D made and witnessed at Fiorano.

 

At the moment the braking performance of the P1 is mainly down due to a poor ABS system, which it has in common with other Mclarens. Randy commented that the car slowed better when he threshold braked without triggering the ABS, which is evident in places on the speed trace. Sadly this stopped the car short on a few corners. I've heard McLaren are looking at an ABS update prior to a rematch as we speak, and possibly (nothing definite), a 315 section Trofeo R too.

The poor ABS performance is present throughout the range, explaining the dire 100+ft 60-0mph stops on smooth surfaces. It'll be interesting to see what happens after the update.

 

So you are basically calling a highly esteemed member of this forum a liar? Not very classy...

 

Unofficial is unofficial as certain other very classy members have reminded Mclaren wrt their 'ring time. The evidence available for this lap to date is ultimately insufficient for it to be entered onto any kind of recognised database. Aside from that you know as well as I do that that's not how this game works, e.g. do some unofficial laps, leak the good times and censor the less good times. Not very classy... Beyond that, the PZCS times are so close there's not really enough in it to make any judgments given the different testing times. Even morning to evening can cost half a second and ultimately, on a more personal note, I despise Anglesey, it's really not the track to be testing cars like this. It's like testing power boats around a swimming pool, or F1 cars around a car park. These cars should be taken to a grown-up's track like a GP circuit so that they can be tested properly. There's effectively no point in having downforce if they're going to be tested around 40-60mph corners all day long.

Another problem is that all the times at Anglesey Coastal were set on different days, the P1 and 918 ran on two consecutive days the first time around and then the P1 came back some weeks later. Aside from that, there's no guarantee that any of these bespoke tyres are the same as each other, or the same as non-bespoke items (see Andreas Preuninger comments on 918/GT3 RS Cup 2s above). McLaren set a time of 1:11.2 (rounded up from 1:11.11) on standard Trofeo Rs and that is the lap record. Trofeo Rs are now also available in LaF size (see page 16), so if you want a time for an unquestionably fair comparison, the LaF should go back Trofeo Rs and set an official time on standard off-the-shelf tyres.
http://www.pirelli.com/mediaObject/pirellityre/ww/en/catalogue/motorsport/pzero_trofeo/PZeroTrofeoR_2014_ENG/original/PZeroTrofeoR_2014_ENG.pdf

 

The fact tha the LF set its time on standard and worn Corsas is even more impressive!

 

It would be if it had done it officially. As it is, the lap doesn't exist. This is the downside of Ferrari's silly games.

 

It's not like the other two did FIA approved laps. Thus all times are equally official, or unofficial, if you may.

 

The problem is I actually entered the LaF time on a lap times database, linking the forum post by the owner as the evidence, it was promptly dismissed as hearsay and deleted.

However, one official LaFerrari test that was done recently by C&D. Turns out the actual kerb weight is 500lbs over that claimed at 3489lb (1585kg) and the quarter mile trap speed was also well down on the claimed 157mph (149mph R&T, 150mph C&D).

We tested the LaFerrari, and the numbers are ridiculous

Ferrari LaFerrari Hypercar TESTED! ? Review ? Car and Driver

The test also strongly suggested that the quality of magazine tester driving is not of a sufficient standard to be basing victories on a few tenths for these cars. The factory driver ran 1:20 1up at Fiorano, and 1:21.5 carrying the C&D driver shotgun on the day. The magazine driver made 1:23.39 1up, some 2s behind the factory driver with a passenger and nearly a whole three and a half seconds off what the car is capable of on a fairly short 80s lap.

Plenty of Power

 

Faster turn exits is more to do with AWD. The battery comprises about 5% of the P1's all-up weight with driver, the other 95% is very low. 90deg V8, shortest stroke, crank line below axle height. E-motor below axle height, Race Mode lowers entire body and interior CoG 50mm. Wheels 1 inch smaller than 918. Car weighs 150kg less. Basically that battery weighs just over half the amount the P1 is lighter than the 918 by. It really doesn't make the big difference many infer that it does. For all it weigh, it would have to be on a roof-rack to undo the CoG advantage posed by the positioning of the rest of the car.

Why is it placed where it is? I'm guessing cooling could be a factor.

High charge usage relative to battery size probably.

If you're interested in how the batteries compare, here's a quick insight:

LaFerrari -
163ps (120kW),
480V,
250A,
2.3kWh,
146kg or 60kg? 146kg may include e-motor?
0.038kWh/kg
52.17kW/kWh
106.5A/kWh



918 -
312+ps (230kW),
385V,
606A,
6.8kWh
138kg
0.049kWh/kg
33.8kW/kWh
89.11A/kWh
Road Test: 2014 Porsche 918 Spyder Review


P1 -
179ps (131kW),
535V,
245A, (131,000W/535V)
4.7kWh
96kg
0.049kWh/kg (joint lowest weight relative to capacity)
27.9kW/kWh (lowest power usage relative to capacity)
52.1A/kWh (lowest charge usage rate relative to capacity - hence no brake re-gen needed!)
Exclusive: McLaren P1 Review

 

Where did the 157mph figure come from?

 

Same place as 15.0s 0-300kph and 1360kg (<3000lb) kerb weight. It was the official claim.

http://www.automobilemag.com/features/magazine/1503-hybrid-is-the-new-fast-ferrari-laferrari-vs-mclaren-p1/

P1 made 9.8@149 on a greasy runway and in race mode which would have knocked a couple of mph off trap speed.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/exotic/1403_mclaren_p1_how_i_set_the_motor_trend_production_car_record/

 

Ah shiiiiiiiit. His ban is over. There goes the neighbourhood.

It was so nice and peaceful and quiet while he was gone.

 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCXDnThUYSU[/ame]

 

The Koenigsegg is no joke. The others may be faster on a race track, but they can't touch it in raw speed and acceleration.

 

i have no idea if information like this has been posted, but i saw where it mentioned laferrari's ev range and I didn't want to copy the whole article:

Technically, LaFerrari can travel 9 to 14 miles in pure electric mode, but Ferrari has limited the top speed in full battery mode to 3 mph to discourage drivers from trying to use the supercar as a zero-emission vehicle.

"You can exit the garage in pure battery mode, but that's it. This car is designed for extreme performances," Fedeli said.

LaFerrari has slashed carbon dioxide emissions to 330 grams per kilometer, down from the Enzo's CO2 output of 545 g/km and below the 350 g/km of the F12 Berlinetta. The CO2 decrease comes mainly from optimizing LaFerrari's internal combustion engine, Fedeli said.

When driving, the HY-KERS system disconnects only when the car reaches its full speed of about 217 mph. At this point, all 800 hp generated by the V-12 goes straight toward powering the wheels.

Fedeli said that few LaFerrari buyers will notice this because even on a Formula One race track such as Monza, the supercar reaches "only" 170 to 180 mph at the end of the main straightaway.

- See more at: Crafting the Ferrari LaFerrari | Autoweek

 

And here goes some info on a true hybrid laferrari's co2:he hybrid technology used, known as HY-KERS, represents the perfect combination of maximum performance and lower emissions. LaFerrari in fact emits just 330 g/km of CO2 but without resorting to electric-only drive which would not fit the mission of this model.

The HY-KERS system is, however, designed so that in future applications a car can be driven using exclusively electric power for a few kilometres and, during development testing, a full-electric version of LaFerrari achieved just 220 g/km of C02 emissions on the combined cycle..

 

Ferrari press release to Automobile Mag. I'm looking through my emags to find that old article... stand by...

 

Even with slipstreaming advantage he got left.

 

Why would he say 'only' given that HY-KERS power lasts up to 217mph. 'Only' seems to suggest a limitation??

 

Mah, sametimes I wonder if magazines report things correctly.
LaFerrari hits easily over 190 mph (305 Kmh) in Monza racetrack main straight before braking for the first chicane

Luque