Which 3.2 water pump?

As I posted the other day, looks like my water pump is shot.

So, here are my options (Using ebay listings for convenience):

1. "Cheap" Italian made pump:
Ferrari 308 328 Mondial Water Pump 121255 with Gasket Italian Made New | eBay

2. Ferrari (?): New Water Pump Assembly Gasket for Ferrari 308 328 Mondial 8 QV 3 2 | eBay

3. Nick's Forza pump: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nicks-Forza-Ferrari-308-328-Hi-Performance-Water-Pump-NEW-in-Box-/191552410081?hash=item2c9969d1e1&vxp=mtr

4. Rebuilt Unit: Ferrari 208 308 GT4 GTS Mondial Big Bearing Rebuilt Water Pump 2 Year Warranty | eBay

Thoughts from the group? I'm leaning towards Nick's....

 

Yes I would also go with Nicks, but what makes it high performance? Did you call and ask?

 

No to above (1 & 2) because the impellar is plastic and can break off.
Find one with a metal or aluminum impellar, Nicks is okay, but you are paying extra for the new pully that you already can reuse your old one. I paid $350 for a new WP a few years ago on ebay for my 3.2, works terrific and I never have any over heating issues. You can certainly go the rebuilt route as well and stay all original. See pics below:
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Thanks, Mike. Based on the stamped part number it looks like you went with option 1 (which is the Italian reproduction)?

Did you change it yourself? Did you use instructions online? The manual ( as far as I can tell) doesn't have anything on how to change the pump.

It looks like I can remove the nuts holding the pump to the housing and pull it straight out. I don't want (or need) to replace the thermostat or other components. Another concern is how to remove and replace the tensioner.

 

I did not call; however, his website has a great description on the differences between his pump and a stock unit ...a different impeller design, much more robust shaft and bearings, etc.

 

Hi Bill,
Not sure if its #1 I went with but mine had an impellar made of aluminum and yes I changed it myself. It was easy compared to doing the cambelts.
My new WP is this one in the picture, still of the original in my garage somewhere to be rebuilt.
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I would replace the thermostat with a new one, its pretty cheap while you are at it.

See my thread on cambelt replacement: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/mondial/406347-belt-replacements-mondial-3-2-a.html

The waterpump section starts here: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/mondial/406347-belt-replacements-mondial-3-2-a-3.html

Best,
Mike

 

I was reading up on differences between early and later models (mine is 1986) and as I recall, the 1986 has a much improved pump bearing or sleave, or something.

 

I had my water pump rebuilt by the Flying Dutchman about a year ago. A year later, the seals failed again. I bought a new one on eBay, part #121255. It appears to be the same as your option #1, but if you don't like that seller, Ferrparts has two of them on eBay. The impeller is NOT plastic, it's cast. I seem to remember reading somewhere in the 3x8 thread that the different impeller design with the holes in the impeller improved water flow. I cannot attest to that from first hand experience, I just put in my new water pump two weeks ago.

Pulling and replacing the water pump was a pretty simple job. I'm not sure why you want to remove or replace the tensioner; just loosening the two tensioner bracket bolts gives you plenty of room to get the pump out. Is there something wrong with your tensioner that you want to remove and replace it? If you do want a new tensioner, there's one on eBay:

Ferrari 308 328 Mondial Belt Tensioner Pulley Part 105051 | eBay

 

It looked to me like the tensioner might have to be removed to replace the water pump. If that's not the case then that's great!

 

David is correct that things have been improved for easy access. For a 3.2 you can remove the water pump by only removing the water pump and alternator belt. Now that is in the ideal world when your water pump is not stuck after unbolting, which is almost never the case.

When you have unbolted it take a wood chisel and gently separate the water pump from the thermostat housing from the top. Once the sealing is cracked it will be easy by hand. I always remove the tensioner to have more space for movement. Put the flat side of the wood chisel on the side of thermostat housing in the split where the gasket sits so that it pushes the water pump off. Or take the whole lot of including the thermostat housing by disconnecting the 2 hoses behind the housing. Hope you can reach it without taking to much away for the last option. (take away the airfilter at least)

Ps. all water pumps fit.. from Mondial 8 to the 3.2 as far as the 308. I have a 308 water pump on my 3.2. I have tried the water pump that Mike is showing, but the ones I got were leaking after 4000 miles and bearings got destroyed (because of the leak). After a second (replacement) which started to leak again. I decided to rebuild my own, which is fitted already for 3000 miles without leaking. It might be that I was just unlucky with this new model, but I will keep on rebuilding from now on.

 

Are you guys using anything on the gaskets? In the British car world Some use axle grease on the gasket. I'm not a big fan of permeated or other sealants; however, it looks like many use that.

As fas as water pump life, I really am torn. Part of me wants to go with the pump from Nick....I'm sure it was last a long time. The realist side of me says it's overkill.

This last pump was rebuilt when I had the major done about 1.5 years ago. It's ridiculous that so many pumps have such a short like.

 

I used permatex gasket sealer for water pumps, works wonderfully, never had 1 leak, its been 2 years now.
I swear the WP I used works terrific, its been 2k miles since I've changed it and my engine's never performed better!

Cheers
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Does the forza pump just bolt on and use stock belts? If so looks like a good idea.

 

Yes, looks like a direct bolt on. Its high performance because Nick custom engineered his to have a lightweight pulley and a 20% higher output based on his impellar design.

Nick explained that pump output is limited by something called cavitation. That’s a fluid dynamics term that basically means the pump impellers can cause bubbles in the cooling liquid which actually inhibit cooling and can cause hot spots and wear.

link to write up: Upgrading a 1978 Ferrari 308 GTS: Cooling System Part 2 | Motorsports Marketing Resources

conclusion: Would I use Nick's WP? Probably over kill when the OE works just fine for my car.
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Finally got my lazy butt in gear and changed the water pump. It's 100F around here so the garage is like an oven. Took about three hours (including cool down breaks) to pull the pump and replace it. Have to get some green antifreeze (anyone have a recommended brand?) and will start it up tonight. Fingers crossed that I don't have any leaks.
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Prestone

 

The car currently has Green antifreeze so I went out at lunch and bought the Peak Green offering. It says it's for all cars pre 1988. So, I hope that will work.

I couldn't see the color of the Prestone at the parts store and didn't want to mix orange or other colors.

 

From which point did you drain the coolant? It matter a bit as 10ltr might stay behind depending where you drained it. (Best place is from either of the center pipe sides. (and disconnect both!)
Great work so far!

 

I was lazy and just pulled the pump. I used a sheet of aluminum (formed into a sort of funnel) to channel it away from the engine into a catch pan. It looks like 10L or so drained out.

New pump is on....have to refill the system, open the bleeders and crank her up!

 

In this case I would put in the same type as what came out.
FYI: 14Ltr stayed behind.

 

Put in the new antifreeze (two around two gallons) and let the car get up to temperature in the carport for around 15 minutes. No leaks (that I can tell) and bled the system a couple of times. Temperatures stayed "cool" (considering its 100F here today) so I'm well pleased.

Looks like the pump replacement was a success! I'll drive the car later this week to verify everything is good. I'm waiting on the temperature to break a little...even with a/c the Mondial can get quite warm!

 

This is a great thread. Hope never to need any of this information but if every it is needed here it is!

 

One item that wasn't mentioned here is that there is an o-ring on the back of the waterpump housing that fits against the engine block. If you don't pull the complete housing out, you wont be able to replace it.

Once you're in this far you might as well change it!

(second picture showing the front view is from the Birdman site)
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