Ignition Wire Problems Part 3 | FerrariChat
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Ignition Wire Problems Part 3

Discussion in '348/355' started by Loser, Apr 10, 2015.

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  1. Loser

    Loser Formula Junior

    Apr 11, 2008
    791
    Gilroy, CA
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    Tom
    #1 Loser, Apr 10, 2015
    I have now rebuilt my ignition wires for a 3rd time and I am still seeing flashes of light all along the valve cover even with the new wires. Should I spend another $500 and buy a 2nd complete new set of wires to replace the ones that I bought a few months ago?

    Here are the steps I've been through:

    1. Bought a new set of wires, one of which melted against the valve cover.
    2. Bought new copper core wire to replace damaged wire.
    3. When discussing this issue, it was suggested that I should be using mag wound wires instead of copper core due to EMI
    4. Bought new mag wound wire and replaced all 8 copper core wires.
    5. Mag wound wires also distorted due to heat. Also damaged 4 plug boots trying to resolve the issues and ordered 4 new boots.
    6. Replaced damaged wound wire and boots.
    7. Ran car with new wires at night and noticed that all 8 wires were arcing to the valve covers.

    Very frustrated...

    Tom
     
  2. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    #2 johnk..., Apr 11, 2015
    Sounds like you may be experiencing corona discharge. If there is no snapping sound as with a true spark or arcing from the wire it is not something to be overly concerned with.
     
  3. Brewman

    Brewman Formula Junior

    Apr 3, 2012
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    NC Mountains @ Boone
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    Joe
    #3 Brewman, Apr 11, 2015
    Tom,

    I'm sure you're frustrated , I would be for sure. A couple of thoughts:

    1) What temp. does the engine run. The reason I ask is I can't imagine melting a wire due to contact with a cam cover. If temp. Ok are you sure the wires have adequate temp. spec.. If not maybe this is causing the wire insulation to break down. All so do your cam covers have standoffs to prevent contact with the cam covers.
    2) Is the area where the plug body screws into the head clean ? If not possibly you are not getting a good ground.
    3) How do your plugs look, lt brown, carboned up ?
    4) Why don't you PM some of the real experts on here.
    5) Have you posted on FLife ? If not give it a try.

    Keep us informed. Best Wishes

    Brewman
     
  4. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    May 29, 2001
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    #4 f355spider, Apr 11, 2015
    Are you making your own, or are these commercially made? I simply bought a set from Kingsborne and never had a problem...for many years. Sold the car with them still on it. Kingsborne are made from the same Beru components as the factory wires.
     
  5. Loser

    Loser Formula Junior

    Apr 11, 2008
    791
    Gilroy, CA
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    Tom
    #5 Loser, Apr 11, 2015
    I bought a new complete wire set from another popular supplier. I noticed that Kingsborne was selling both an IGN9793 from Italy made with Beru wires and another one labeled IGN9793K made from Kingsborne wires at some point. Now I only see the Italian variety on their site.

    When I bought the wires from the other vendor, they had the same image on their website as the Italian wires on the Kingsborne website. What I received instead appears to be very similar to the IGN9793K wires. I installed them and ran into all of the issues. Now I am considering spending another big chunk of money and ordering the Italian IGN9793 wires from Kingsborne.

    -Tom
     
  6. Loser

    Loser Formula Junior

    Apr 11, 2008
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    Tom
    #6 Loser, Apr 11, 2015
    1. The engine is running at 195. I am not sure regarding the temperature specification of the Kingsborne wires and I am concerned that there may be an issue with this. As far as standoffs, I guess I don't really understand the question.
    2. I'll have to pull some plugs and examine the inside of the holes. I haven't done this yet, but they seem to screw in and out easily.
    3. I'm using brand new NGK plugs. The old plugs looked alright when I removed them.
    4. I have talked with a couple that pointed me in the direction of using mag wound wires instead of copper core, but everyone seems stumped why I am having heat related issues with the wires.
    5. I just joined FLife a few days ago. I'll look over there and maybe post something.

    Thanks,

    Tom
     
  7. Loser

    Loser Formula Junior

    Apr 11, 2008
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    Gilroy, CA
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    Tom
    #7 Loser, Apr 11, 2015
    Before I changed out my original Beru wires, I saw a blue corona around the wires with white flashes between the wires and the valve covers. With these new wires, I no longer see the blue corona, but I still see the white flashes. Also, when the flashes happen, I can definitely hear the sound of the Engine change (maybe missing out).
     
  8. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    #8 johnk..., Apr 11, 2015
    Got it. Sorry I don't have a suggestion.
     
  9. Brewman

    Brewman Formula Junior

    Apr 3, 2012
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    Joe
    #9 Brewman, Apr 11, 2015
    Tom,

    My 348 has plastic standoffs that route the plug wires across the cam covers and hold the wires off the cam covers. Does your 355 have these as well.

    I'm stumped as well particularly with your temp. being normal. Obviously we're all missing something.

    Brewman
     
  10. Loser

    Loser Formula Junior

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    #10 Loser, Apr 11, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Actually, no. The wires are tightly pressed against the valve cover by each of the plug boots. It seems like a bad design. In fact, I just finished CAD work to build a spacer for the left side valve cover so that I can route the wires away from the valve cover (and use 8.5mm wires if I choose). I still need to do the CAD for the right side, then it's off to the CNC. These will fit between the valve cover and the plate that covers the plug wires.
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  11. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    #11 Rifledriver, Apr 11, 2015
    A design shared by every 355 ever made and yet you seem to have a singular problem.

    The way to address it is to figure out what is being done wrong, not modify the car to facilitate incorrect assembly.
     
  12. WATSON

    WATSON Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #12 WATSON, Apr 11, 2015
    I am pretty sure 8mm wires do not work. 7MM wires are required.

    As I understand it, the routing of the wires is critical. one on top, next one below, you can not just toss them in the valve cover tray and go. There was a picture at one point explaining the routing. Not sure where that went.
     
  13. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    #13 Rifledriver, Apr 11, 2015
    And I can see in the photo just above that they are routed wrong.
     
  14. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    #14 yelcab, Apr 11, 2015
    I have two cars with the wires open right now. Tom, your wires look like 8mm wires to me. They are too big, and fit too tight.
     
  15. Loser

    Loser Formula Junior

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    #15 Loser, Apr 11, 2015
    I would love to have that picture/explanation.

    - Tom
     
  16. Loser

    Loser Formula Junior

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    #16 Loser, Apr 11, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  17. Loser

    Loser Formula Junior

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    #17 Loser, Apr 11, 2015
    Agreed Brian. I am probably going to end up just buying another set of wires (the Italian ones this time). Hopefully I can get a diagram of the proper routing before they arrive.

    - Tom
     
  18. Loser

    Loser Formula Junior

    Apr 11, 2008
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    #18 Loser, Apr 11, 2015
    By the way, when I leave the covers off and route the wires away from the valve covers, the car runs smoothly. When I put the covers back on, it starts stuttering a little and I get a P0102 code (which I have been fighting for years). It is interesting that when the wires are routed away from the covers, the P0102 code goes away.

    P0102 = MAF circuit low input. I previously replaced the MAF and all associated wiring/connectors all the way back to the ECU and that did not resolve the issue. Once I started working with the ignition wires, I was able to get the issue to go away.
     
  19. WATSON

    WATSON Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #19 WATSON, Apr 11, 2015
    That's interesting. You think that is related to the plug wires?

    Sounds to me like you need to get back to stock and pick your way out from there. Get a good set of 7mm wires, route them correctly and see what you get going forward
     
  20. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    #20 Rifledriver, Apr 11, 2015
    There is a harness that runs right next to the wires on the left side. If the wires are bad EMI car raise hell with those circuits.

    BTDT
     
  21. gobble

    gobble Formula 3
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    #21 gobble, Apr 11, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  22. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    #22 yelcab, Apr 11, 2015
    If those four wires fit inside the rubber grommet like that, and the grommet goes into the slot where the wires exit the cover at the rear, then why do your wires look squished at that point?
     
  23. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    #23 Rifledriver, Apr 11, 2015
    I have never used the wires you have. My experience is limited to OE and the after market wires Kingsborne sells and have had no trouble making either fit.
     
  24. NSXn355

    NSXn355 Rookie

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    #24 NSXn355, Apr 12, 2015
    These wires are clearly marked "7" while the wires shown in post #16 are marked "8". Isn't that the real issue?
     
  25. gobble

    gobble Formula 3
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    #25 gobble, Apr 12, 2015
    That's actually the cylinder number. Follow another wire and you'll see a 6.
     
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