For those looking for a Boxer

Might reach more interested parties in the Boxer section. Perhaps a Mod can move the thread?

 

Agree - this should be in the Flat-12 Engine section (Boxers / TRs).

I owned a 512 BBi and didn't particularly care for it. Too much of a heavy mid-engined car, trying to be a GT car.

I'm sure the carb versions (512 BB and 365 GT4 BB) are more interesting, but certainly not at that price.

 

Click to warning sign to the right to report a thread.

 

FYI----The car is NOT legal in Cali and is NOT for sale to Cali resident.

 

Looks like a fair ask based on condition and current market trends...

 

I bet you just kinda, sorta wish you still owned that underwhelming bbi that could conceivably be worth a decent fare in this market?

and by the way, the boxer was always designed to be a long legged GT car that was capable of eating up the miles...it was NEVER intended to be a 911 like sports car. just needed to be said.

 

I have heard this before that the Boxer was designed to be a long legged GT car. Personally I just don't see it. Maybe my Boxer is just too much of a beast but if I was looking for a long legged GT car I would pick a 550 instead.

 

I'd pick a LS460 Sport package.
Now there is a car that gets the ticker pimping.

 

The 550 would have been a great GT choice back in 1983.

 

If that is the parameter than I would pick a Daytona since I am still waiting on the time machine.

I agree with you that they were marketing it as a GT car but I just personally don't get it.

 

Th problems with a boxer as a Gt car are cabin heat, and you are sitting pretty low down almost like layign back in a sled, although as was the way back then the suspension was pretty soft, but then so was a Gt40s.

I have heard it said that the boxer fell between two stools, too soft/creature comforts to be hard core and by layout/execution too hard and compromised to be a GT.

As to long legged, all ferrari road from prior eras are pretty long legged. These were never 0-60 car. 1st gear is to get rolling the rest pretty tall.

What the boxer appears to be is a big bore can am type car for the road, in that a boxer is a bloodline of 1.

As to the softeness/hardcore part. That is pretty easily cured with modern tires. I have no idea why ferrari insisted on trx tires when p7s were already out. The TRX is a bmw 6 series tire, so maybe thats the Gt part, although some say it was Enzo loyatly to michelin from F1 racing.

Put 17 in rims on a boxer and somethign like ps2's and the car is transformed, not only is ride better but grip steering feedback and handling move into another plane. Maybe 15s with avon radials is similar.

In any event we know Nick masons BBLM was faster than his Gt40 around goodwowod on the same day with the same driver. A BBLM is basicaly a boxer with 100 more hp and lightened somewhat runnign slicks. The basic tub and suspension are unchanged.

A daytona is a Gt car, a boxer is way lighter at the helm and far more responsive than any
daytona. True Boxers need to be grabbed by the scruff of the neck and pushed to come alive, but thats part of the charm.

On the road, runnign modern rubber and decent pads, none of the moderns is out runnign us, well they could if the drivers were insane, but at what would be considered highly antisocial speeds a boxer has no trouble settign the pace with moderns on twisties and straights.

On track a BBI will keep pace with a 355, a 360 will walk away and cars after that, different story. BTW if you were say doing 145ish down a long straight and had to brake hard for say a 50 mph right hander, stock brakes with good pads work just fine.


Power, well mine could always outrun my friends 964 series 911 down low(and these are low geared) on accerationa, and the gap widened with speed. In one roll on contest with a daytona they were literally neck and neck from 40 to 120ish when we both backed off. My car is still stock but since then has a freer flowing exhaust and basic fettling makign it a bit quicker.

There is a lot more performance in a boxer than many think. It just needs new rubber and on most new bushings.

Sadly many boxers seemed destined now for the concors lawn, with owners obesseing over jack handles, correct eqalisers and books.(got all that too)

 

This. The BB, especially the early 365's which evolved through their series of production, was really a prototype for the road. It was an experiment for Ferrari, from the application of the revolutionary (for Ferrari) flat-12 engine to the packaging. One can truly appreciate how it was a journey of refinement to the F512M.

That's what makes the BB special. The type of production that generated the car, true on-the-line development - similar to its contemporaries the Miura and the Countach - has been legislated out of existence. It doesn't matter if the BB was a good or great sports or GT car. That's fun armchair discussion, but in truth the topic is pedantic. The magic of the Boxer is that it's a dream car anyone (with wealth) could buy at a dealer and drive home. Days gone by.

 

+1 and that's why I believe the 365s and the 512bbs were the first Ferrari supercars. The same theory Ferrari applied years later with the Enzo and now with the la Ferrari on a different scale and level.

 

Great point.

 

Dave and Sean, some of the best descriptions of the essence of the Boxer that I have read, well done. As evidenced by some quotes in this thread and elsewhere over the years, it is understandably difficult to consider the BB as the end of the evolutionary chain for performance AT THE TIME. A remarkable achievement, again when considered against anything that had been produced to date.

Sean, I hope you don't mind if I quote you in a tagline under my posts. Wonderful!

 

Boxerman makes quite a few great points.


1) The problems with a Boxer as a GT car are the cabin heat and sitting pretty low.

I sprayed on LizardSkin when doing my project and that helped a lot but heat still pours in from the center console.

2) Putting on modern tires transform the cars.

Going with HRE 505 18” wheels, Bridgestone tires and the Konis with adjustable spring perches did transform the car.

3) There is a lot more performance in a boxer than many think.

While the performance of a base injected car is decent. Wade really transformed the power in my project. With 512M titanium rods, lightened crank, Tubi headers and exhaust, and a Newman custom ring and pinion, along with Wade’s Ferrari Challenge experience and you have one beast.

4) Sadly many boxers seemed destined now for the concours lawn.

At the last Caffeine and Octane a gentleman came up to me and said how much he loved Boxers. I asked him how many he has seen as clearly he know a lot about the Boxer. I was surprised that he said he had only seen one and that was in the 90s. Well mine has been out and about and will continue to be.