who will be first to surpass senna in race wins? Vettel or hamilton?

+1

I'm not sucking up to Isobel here, () but Gilles was another that could make a car faster than it should have ever been. It's almost impossible to put into words, but the true 'greats' just transcended the sport - You just knew they were better than the rest.

Cheers,
Iam

 

Agree 1000%. Gilles was a damned daredevil in bad cars. I wish he would have survived a full season in the 126C2 to become a deserved WDC.

One of my favorite Scuderia drivers, definitely.

 

I agree with everything Ian and Rick are stating, Ayrton, Jimmy and Gilles were truly that special. Alonso, Hamilton and Vettal are great drivers, I just don't think they are great as these 3.

 

I doesn't neutralize their ability, but it eliminates a lot of "human error" from the rest of the competition.

We all know Senna was an exceptional talent, but to claim that he would be doing the same in a different era is foolish.

You just have to look at two FACTS:
1. Cars were a lot easier to pass without all the aero
2. Drivers were prone to making more mistakes

 

Nonsense. Ayrton really was that good.

Jochen Rindt, 1968:

Err, no. They made a mistake back then it likely cost them their life. Today, they can **** up with impunity.

Cheers,
Ian

 

Just another opinion.

Not the type of mistake I was referring to.

When was the last time a driver got passed due to a missed gear?

I'm not here to change your mind. You're entitled to your opinion.
To me a driver is the best of his generation. All of this talk about how Senna would wipe the floor with the current generation is imaginary nonsense.

 

Again, I'd be more interested in what today's drivers feel about such a question. "Imaginary nonsense" is usually what one opines when devoid of context.

The difference between those of us who saw Senna and the like drive versus you and Toil: we actually CAN compare what we've witnessed between then and now. We saw those guys drive and we've seen today's drivers. There are fast guys and there are transcendent drivers. We're not saying all drivers from "way back then" are better than everyone on the grid today. You guys, otoh, stand opposite the thoughts of everyone (including the pantheon of F1 drivers) by attempting to minimize the abilities of guys widely acknowledged as history's best. You guys have no true witness, therefore your information is based solely on anectodal data.

unfortunately, fate robbed you of seeing special talents. I see no reason to besmirch their accomplishments though.

 

I think Social media of today plays a huge roll in judging drivers. Millions of arm chair experts pulling apart every on track and of track antics of all drivers while wearing rosy coloured spectacles while reminiscing of the drivers of old.
Had the same social media been around back in the day, i think today's view of the old drivers would not be the same. All we knew about the drivers back then was what we saw during the race on a limited tv race service, as well as what little there was in the news papers if they could be bothered to print it.
I think today because of social media, every aspect of the drivers life is out there, there is no longer the mystique that the back in the day drivers had. That's what I believe anyway.

 

It's imaginary nonsense because it never happened and never will. It's called REALITY.

I said exceptional talent and BEST of his generation.

Your opinion is that Senna would beat anyone past and present. He would beat drivers that were not even born with cars that he never drove. That sounds pretty imaginary to me.

My opinion is that Fangio, Clark, Senna, Schumacher were the best of their generation.
That sounds a lot more REAL to me.

 

Kind of like James Hunt, right? Nobody knew much about him back when he was racing.

I'm of the opposite belief. I think the drivers were much more colorful back then and more the subject of articles. There is very little I can tell you about Vettel, Alonso, Massa, Raikkonen, etc outside of their on-track antics. We only know a little more about Ham because he was dating a *****cat Doll.

The drivers of today are more carefully managed, which unfortunately makes them less interesting.

 

When did I state this? I'm saying that these guys are widely regarded as the best drivers in F1 history. It is your opinion that they would be less successful driving today's cars.

 

Sorry, I guess it was Ian and nsxrebel.

I didn't say they would be less successful. My point was that it was a different era and that it's foolish to think they would achieve the same success driving a modern f1 car. Same as it is foolish to think a modern driver would be able to go back in time and beat Fangio, Clark, Senna.

When I mentioned Senna in the 80s/90s most here think he would have the same success with a 2000-2010 car. I guess some of you guys have actually witnessed Senna passing Alonso, Hamilton, Raikkonen.

 

Funny one this, because the said articals were the only source of information available to the fans. I also remember there was not many of them. When we did read the articals, we were reading the views of the single jurnalist that write it. Then the only people we would discussed it with was with a few other fellow F1 fans down the pub.
Were as these days, as soon as anything is read we can instantly jump onto social media and speak to potentially millions of fellow fans, who themselves have expert opinions ( arm chair), and links to links.
Yes to many they might have seemed more colorful back in the day. But thats only because we could not all talk to each other on the forums so to praise and or to rip them apart or psychoanalyse the subject.
Also just as Elvis sold more records when he was dead than alive, thus a top drivers legendary status increases exponentially when he dies before his time. Kind of an untouchable.

 

Too many agreeing in here I disAGREE..

 

I for one agree to disagree with any one who agrees or disagree with me

 

I can't remenber the year, i guess it was 79, when someone counted that at Monaco Gilles deliberatly rubbed the gard rail more than 30 times with the left rear tyre at a couple of corners in order to get all the track size he could to turn as fast as he could!!!....i can't even imagine the sort of precision one must have to do that so often and get away with it without ever making a MistAke and blowing up th wheel....i remenber in 08 when Lewis touched it by mistake and flated his tyre imidiatly (and because of that won the race, lololo)....and this is not the only place, there are pictures showing him doing the same at Zeltweg in a fast curve.....this is just crazy, and i can't even imagine anyother driver capable of doing this....

 

I'll bite. One name. Schumacher

You're comparing Senna of the 80s/90s to the cars of today. IMO Senna was more talented than Schumacher in terms of raw speed and ability. Not what the history books say, just what I remember seeing as a kid when they were racing against each other. They had a very similar record in 92 and 93 as MS was on the podium every race he finished in 93 while Senna had more wins.

Fast forward to 2000-2004 and we know how that goes. Given how close they were in points when they competed against each other and how talented they both were, I'd say it wouldn't be a problem.

 

Lol you must feel so helpless that you have to retord to such childish comments.

Meanwhile in reality Lewis keeps taking those wins and poles..

 

Since i never heard of you before, and we never where formerly introduced, i will assume you're another child who escaped parenting control and is using the internet without permission to do so..... Toil's friend are you? Grow up or get a life.....

 

So anyone who does not introduce themselves to you or you have not heard from before, is just another child? Really? Is that how it works around here, ha, ha thats funny The forum must be full of children then

 

Yes i'm new here and nobody's friend, just a silent observer. You say he's not as Vettel, Kimi or Ricciardo.

Lets just state the facts here instead of listening to your idiotic interpretation of reality, because you got your head up your own *** so far you cant seem to see what's reall anymore:


Hamilton=Alonso 2X WDC
Hamilton>Kov
Hamilton>But 1X WDC
Hamilton>Ros

Ricciardo>Vettel
Vettel>Webber

Alonso>Massa
Alonso>Raikonnen 1X WDC
Alonso>Grosjean
Alonso>Piquet.jr

Massa=Raikonnen
________________________________________
Verdict : Argument invalid.
________________________________________


Explain to me how Lewis doesn't make it in the top 20 when he's the 5th most winningest driver ever, currently holds allmost all british records and is one his way to become the most succesfull british driver maybe even before years end? Dude you're pretty delusional. You sound like one of those 'bitter fanboys' you love to talk about.

The irony..

 

No, but if one does not know someone perhaps one should at least try and be polite.

 

Sorry fanboy you're on ignore, i stoped waisting time trying to educate fanboys...