who will be first to surpass senna in race wins? Vettel or hamilton?

However the real talents win (or almost win) a race in a slow car. Guys like Senna, Bellof and Vettel.

 

Really?
Is this the same Vettel that won ZERO in the same car that has teammate used to secure 3 race wins last year.

Then you completely ignore the fact that Hamilton has won in every season he competed in since 2007. The only driver that has ever done that. Very interesting logic you have there.

Maybe in your mind Hamilton has been driving dominant cars since 2007.

 

Almost...and then some actualy do it...Gilles

 

No but they where good enough to win races....

 

[ Then when he retires and sits somewhere on the beach with a Billion $ in his bank account you will still be on Ferrarichat talking about how he was gifted all of those records.[/QUOTE]

I hope so, but i wan't be talking about him, because from the moment he is gone there will be no more fanboys to piss....and besides i only talk about retired drivers that where really good...this won't be the case....

 

Ok lets just agree that they were all good enough to win races. He basically did his job.

What does that tell us about the guy that had a car capable of winning 3 but he won ZERO out of 19 races?

 

1982-Keke Rosberg. Should've been Pironi but his accident sealed that deal and Rosberg won.

1973-Jackie Stewart with Tyrrel (which is arguable). Some say the Lotus was faster, others say the McLaren was faster.

1974-Emerson Fittipaldi. Some say the Ferrari and Lotus were faster but less reliable, but Clay wasn't fast enough and Lauda was plagued with reliability issues.

1982 is the only one that was a slower car, the others are opinions.

 

nothing.....

 

1974-Emerson Fittipaldi. Some say the Ferrari and Lotus were faster but less reliable, but Clay wasn't fast enough and Lauda was plagued with reliability issues.

Piquet said he only ever saw Emmo win 2 races, the rest just fell on his lap!!! Of course, this being Nelson we have to take it lightly...

 

Jarama

 

OK.
With Hamilton we learned that he is just average and won in every season because he had a car capable of that. It's very interesting that he is the only one person as far as I know that has ever done that in the history of F1. Maybe we should start calling him Mr Lucky?

In Vettel's case not wining a single race in a car that was capable of at least 3 race wins we learned NOTHING.

Thanks for clarifying that.

 

No more, no less...It is just not that heroic achievement some want to tell us here...

That this was a car that capable to win three races in the hand of Riccardo and with issues from the Mercedes but it was not a car to the taste of Vettel were the combination of them was capable of winning. This says absolutely nothing whether Vettel is better or worse than Riccardo because non of us knows whether the situation would have been exactly the other way round in the 2013 car or even the 2015 Ferrari...Obviously the difference between the drivers is less significant nowadays (at least on the top level) that it does make a difference whether one car suits your driving or not. Same can be said about Raikkonen or is there still someone thinking that his abilities changed so much from 2013 to 2014 and back to 2015...

 

You're welcome

 

Yap, and Monaco too, 2 in a row.....just to show it was no fluke...

 

With all due respect, which car did Hamilton have that wasn't good? He went McLaren directly to Mercedes. 2007 and 2008 were championship cars. 2009 Button got lucky with Brawn in the beginning until everyone else caught up after the regs changed. 2010 it was just as competitive as everyone else but not on par with the Redbulls. Same with '11 and '12. 2013 the Mercs were just as good as the best of the rest like Ferrari until the tire change favored the red bulls.

Its not like he was in a crap car from the beginning, he did indeed get lucky with the McLarens.

 

Did I say the car was crap? I also said NOBODY wins with a slow car.
I just brought up a FACT. He is the only F1 driver that has ever done this.
On the other hand Vettel won zero in a car that we all know was capable of winning at least 3. So where is the logic?

 

But I brought up the FACT that people have won in slower cars....I'm trying to be reasonable here but you're not looking at everything.

 

Maybe i need to define slow car. I did not say slower or 2nd/3rd fastest. I said slow car.
I was talking in general. Even Senna needs a fast reliable car.
Senna is not going to win in Manor, Force India, this year's McLaren, etc

 

Exactly...and because all the greats had to drive cars like a Toleman, a Jordan or a Toro Rosso in the beginning Hamilton is the only one with a win in every season...because he never had to! That is a nice statistic but does not make him great alone, just fortunate in his choice of cars and the time he changed from McLaren to Mercedes!

 

Schumacher won at least 1 race in every season from 1992 to 2006. Sure, he didn't win in his debut season in 1991 but that was only a quarter of a season since he started in Belgium. Plus his car was far from competitive until 1994, unlike the McLaren.

Senna also won in every season except for his debut in 1984 (probably would have won then too if the Monaco race hadn't been red flagged) and 1994 because of death.

Hami is very good but that stat, considering the machinery at his disposal, isn't all that impressive.

 

Oops. Should have read yours before I posted the same thing...

 

OK. I even agreed that the car was capable of doing that.
The question I'm trying to get answered here is what happens when a "great" like Vettel fails to win in a car that was capable of wining 3 races. You guys keep beating around the bush. Hamilton has won in every season with a car capable of wining. OK we all agree with that.

Vettel was in a car that was designed around him. It was capable of 3 wins, but he still manged to get beat by Ricciardo and win ZERO races. The entire 19 race season without a single win. Why is he all of a sudden a great while Hamilton's accomplishments are average?

 

Go get replays of last season and you'll have your answers.

 

It seems like nothing is impressive when it comes to Hamilton. Even if he reaches the top of the pole position list or ahead of Prost in number of wins he will still be an average driver.

 

I watched every race since 1997. Maybe I missed something last year. Please share your great knowledge.