Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

Hmmm...

 

Also
"I came back from Fiorano last year wondering if the LaFerrari was the best car I'd ever driven. Although the test numbers remain murky and Ferrari's refusal to let customers have third parties test their cars is disappointing, in terms of feedback, accessibility, and excitement, the LaFerrari is the best car I've ever driven

Read more: Ferrari LaFerrari First Test - Motor Trend "

 

If the performance is the same, why not allow a 2-way test, or a test somewhere else? Why state 9.6s@157mph? Why state 1360kg kerb weight? Why not just be honest? Seconds? No. A tenth and a few mph on trap speed, quite possibly.

Subjective, people like the sound of V12s. In an Evo video someone says they prefer the F1 to the P1, the main reason appeared to be a V12 again. Putting a V12 in a supercar gives an easy win with magazine opinions. Then again, maybe the deal is that they don't get invited back if they think otherwise. Given the level of manipulation it's difficult to say.

 

Given that this Ferrarichat, it is finally nice to hear about Laferrari after 850+ pages!

 

yours and my thoughts exactly!

Im sooooooooo over the p1/918 bickering. But with info coming out about the LAF now, we've already seen the usual suspects trying to poke holes in whatever they can and pronounce their car god the best god. I have no issue with people stating their opinion, but the literal essays that are typed on here to try to make one point is a bit insane. Oh well....doesnt look like that'll change anytime soon.


Also, im sure this summer we will be seeing plenty of customer car LAFs being tested around different circuits. So lets put the essays away until we start seeing that. Its just rehashing articles months old at this point anyway....

 

1) Fiorano is FIA approved and it is against regulations to run the other way around.
2) R&T managed 9.7s. I have not seen Ferrari claiming 157 mph trap speed though. It also seems unlikely that such a claim was ever made as the 1/4 mile does not exist in Europe as a metric.
3) Ferrari claimed (somewhat indirectly to be honest) that 1360 kilos would be the wet weight, not the kerb weight! Dry 1255 (also indirectly stated) & oil & coolant and hydraulic fluids and some petrol add up to wet weight. No full tank, driver or luggage. Also, that weight is as per usual with all the lightweight options, so it may mean the use of the optional perspex windows, audio delete option etc.

 

Massive strawman! FIA approval doesn't make it legitimate for quarter mile times and by NHRA rules, it isn't legitimate.

Asked before, answered before.
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/143858045-post17041.html

Massive semantic subterfuge. To everyone in the automotive world, wet weight is kerb weight (with fuel), and dry weight is weight without fuel. So you're now claiming 1360kg was 'wet weight' without fuel? So where is the 225kg of fuel? Or the 105kg of oil and coolant for that matter?

My guess is that 1360kg was how much it weighed without the battery, e-motor (146kg combined) and fuel (circa 80kg?). 1360 + 146 + 80 = 1586kg, coincidence?

 

1) FIA approved means it cannot be run in the opposite direction. Or so they say...
2) I am sorry but that source is anything but official. I too can print anything I want on my website!
3) Dry means without any fluids whatsoever. Wet means in operational condition. Kerb (EU) means with a driver, 4/5s of a tank and 25 kilos of luggage.

 

What about the P1 and its claimed weight? P1 is just 38 kgs lighter
Where's is 0-300 16.5s? (Please show me test)

 

How about P1 being 6 seconds a lap faster than GT3's at Catalunya F1 Track?

They are all cool cars but:

La is the most coveted as it's resale value of $3MM proves.

918 is a lot faster than many thought it would be.

P1 is a lot slower than many thought it would be vs. 918 and has not proven pre release boasts.

Everyone lies about weight.

This is news??

 

Thank you for posting that! We have yet to see anyone (other than autocar) actually time the p1 like they have done the laf and 918. I haven't seen a 0-180 time for the p1 like we've seen on the 918, but he tends to avoid anything bad about the p1.

Thank you as well!

 

1) It's a private track that was closed at the time, so I can't see how that's an issue.

2) Okay, well what about the 15.0 0-300kph time then? Pretty clear that's based on the 9.6s@157mph quarter, unless 150-186mph is going to happen in 5s.

3) That's the definition of EU DIN weight. Kerb means either full fuel, 90% or 50% depending on country but usually taken to mean full fuel these days. Either way, you can twist and turn this all you like but 1360kg is miles out, even if you remove all the fuel and fluids.

 

Yes Mr Glickenhaus, everyone lies about weight, as like as fuel economy, CO2 etc etc
These three hypcars are masterpieces (fast, use friendly, high tech), unfortunately a bit fat.
My bet is : LaFe is (a bit) overall better and faster after 200kph. 300 kph 15s is impossible, my bet is about 17.5 - 18s
918 is fantastic (please see Quattroruote full review) and the fastest on slowest track

 

1539kg, not in the lightest spec. Pretty close to that stated.
TopGearUK - LaFerrari vs McLaren P1 vs Porsche 918 - Page 2 - McLaren Life
McLaren Life

Right here. 23.29s 0-200mph. Note 0-150mph time for both cars is well down on that normally expected due to terrible traction, and also a terrible surface for skipping at high speed (brief losses of contact with ground). P1 has gone 1.3s faster 0-150mph with MT, still on a surface described as greasy and in race mode (higher drag). Surface was also flat oddly enough! Therefore the ideal 0-200mph time would be nearer 21.Xs, which lines up nicely with a 16.5s 0-186mph assuming ~5s 186-200mph (note 2.2s 200-205mph. The P1 figures stack up far more honestly all round. Now this probably doesn't even affect buyers at all, so why always lie?
McLaren P1: How I Set The Motor Trend Production-Car Record - Motor Trend Page 2

As for 6s faster than a 12C GT3 around Catalunya, the only source I can find for that is Jalopnik, which links to a post by a non-official source on McLife. So basically, someone on the internet said something and some people of highly unsound judgment expected it to be true. By the time that post was made, it was already known to be only 4s faster than a road-going 12C around Kyalami, so no way did that come from anywhere official. But then some claim 6:30s on the 'ring in a road car with road tyres, but so far only 6:43 on slicks.
The McLaren P1 Might Eat GT3 Race Cars For Lunch
McLaren P1 - Mega Mac-F1 Successor - Page 69 - McLaren Life
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

True; but all of that is a bit different than stating that P1 was 6 seconds faster than GT3's at the Catalunya F1 Track when there is no evidence that it "was".

 

Remember a debate on the P1's tyres and their max weight tolerance at max speed with max downforce. Apparently the wing goes slightly down at very high speeds to avoid breaking tyres and suspensions.

 

I agree

 

Source? Some random poster on McLife? See my comments above. Also your 6:43 lap, this was on slicks yes? Still waiting for 6:30 on road tyres.

What about stating 1360kg kerb weight when a simple set of scales will tell you it's 500lbs heavier?

Yeah, 2g is possible but not with a full tank. Calculations already shown.

 

The suspension part seems strange. Many cars make a lot more downforce than a P1 and subject suspension to these forces for 24 Hours without issues. As for road tires Dunlop hasn't mentioned that that would be an issue for us at very high downforce levels.

Sadly as the speed limits on the Ring will probably never allow flat out laps again we'll never know what a La could do there vs. the 918. In light of that why doesn't McLaren show us their "real" Ring time? Speed limits have made "safety" a non issue. "Safety" always seemed a lame excuse to me for McLaren's never releasing the P1's "real" Ring time but now that that's a non issue what excuse could they possibly have?

 

Nordschleife time for the P1 is 7:04 per my industry contacts.
Also confirmed by Bridge to Gantry.

P1 is still a fantastic car, as is the LaFerrari and the 918.

Also, straight line acceleration is very similar for all three to 150mph (~10.5 sec). If drag racing is the objective, much cheaper to build a Twin Turbo Viper or Gallardo.

 

So that bellow 7 time was a once in a lifetime thing?

 

My understanding is that the sub 7 minute time was achieved on a simulator, not in real life. Best real time is 7:04, which is still very quick.

 

And now the truth comes out. Makes sense now how all the fanboys could say they had "insider" knowledge. They were lead to believe a simulator would produce real world results. Just like their "best segment" times added together would somehow represent an actual full lap. Porsche 1 / McLaren -1

 

You love to quote times that aren't exact. I said 0-180, not 0-200 and fill in the blank. 918 has done 0-180 in 17 seconds, now show me a p1 with a 0-180 time.