how to value a car where the owner did the major themself

+1

 

I'll never ever buy a Rolex so I can't coment. But while I can work on a ferrari I can't work on a watch. I don't even wear watches anymore. If I did it cost less that 40 bucks.

 

Agreed 100 percent. I think that is a buyers decision. If you are asking what i would do and i have seen The work of some ferrari shops i would talk to who did the service. Iam however mechanical and i would ask them what they did and see how smart they are.

That being said if i was not mechanical and it came down to trust i would always trust a dealer more than an diy owner. Not neccesaritly a independant mechanic. I would grade the mechanic on their knowledge and track record.
I am sure even the mechanics on here that have worked at dealerships ferrari or others certainly know that all mechanics are not created equal even though they might have the same education and experience.

 

I'd prefer to have a car with a major service done by someone who's done hundreds of majors services, rather than one or two.

 

I thought the question was about the value of a car with a DIY major, not whether or not you would buy it. As I said, I would consider the major not done and would reflect that in an offer. On the other hand, it's a net-net thing. Sale price - (purchase price + cost of maintenance) = net cost (gain) of ownership. DIYing a couple of majors could swing that equation very differently than having them done at a good shop.

I would have no problem doing a major on my car, but I would expect to get less for it when I sell it as a result. On the other hand, I will not do a major myself on my cars because I don't do anything on my cars that I can not do over a weekend.

 

There is no documentation that can speak for the current state of the car.
Current state of the car will be the most important part in buying.
So, if you are buying a Dino, 288 gto, or an F40 in superb shape you won't buy or pay top $$$$ because someone did their own service?
Unfortunately, I cant service my car myself. If I could I would.
I know I'm going to get some ugly commends now but let's be honest most people hate dealing with dealers/mechanics because they are the crookedest people. When was the last time you took your car for an oil change and a huge list didn't pop up. A lot of times it's bogus.

 

If the DIY documentation is there (receipts, photos of the process, etc.) and a PPI comes back good, then IMHO the car is worth the same as a 'certified' major.

For those insisting on a dealer major...yeah right, the dealer who did my PPI did the leakdown wrong the first time because, as the service manager said, the tech 'had more experience with diesels in the past'. And they missed the fact that my CEL was REMOVED so it wouldn't be on. Who would value a major done there more than a DIY? Think about this, anyone doing their own work OWNS their car. That means vested interest in getting it right. Regardless a buyer is free to value a car as they wish, but I absolutely wouldn't reduce my sell price because I did the work myself. First time around I did my own major, clutch, etc...make no mistake, it's a big project. So second time around I did have the pro do it, Pocono Sportscar

 

Yeah, sorry that comment is a bit off in this forum. Agreed some local dealers / mechanics might inflate what's needed on a Honda minivan...but at least the independent Ferrari techs rely on reputation and quality. If there's a list of extra things needed...it's because your car actually needs them done.

 

Exactly. And "exactly" to several other previous posts.

It doesn't matter how skilful the person is who did the work, or how well documented it is.

Lots of people simply wouldn't buy a Ferrari that didn't have the necessary stamps in the book.
That's just the way it is.
I'm well aware that a stamp in the book is no guarantee of a good job done.

But given that the basic question asked by this thread was one of "value" and not quality of work, there is only one answer.

As time goes on, the cars which have been maintained by a Ferrari specialist will be the ones which retain the highest value.

 

OK. So the moral of the story is:

If you do your own major service, do not sell the car until after 5 years has elapsed.

Right?

 

I would prefer to buy a car with the major done by an authorized specialist. On the flip side, like most folks, I wouldn't want to pay full fare for it either when buying a car. Either way, its probably a wash.

 

Buying it is the ultimate expression of value. Buying it is putting your money where your mouth is.

FYI there is also no agreed upon description of what a major service is. In fact the "major" has evolved in 30 years. In the 308 days only race cars got degreed. Now it is an expectation that is still quietly "claimed" to be done behind closed doors. Similarly fuel injector "removal and service" are starting to become part of a major when in years past getting some fuel injector cleaner was lucky. If you read about those evolutions right here in the chronology of Fchat you will find it was us DIY guys who raised the bar for the love of the hobby. There is still no solution to the lack of quality 170787 timing bearings. The FNA solution is to replace with more failing FNA bearings. The proper solution has not come from FNA or any Indy but from a DIY guy. So where is "Value"? Value is having the knowledge to make an intelligent choice on what car to buy and why. If you know nothing about Ferrari's then going with a platinum award winning FNA only serviced car is the low hanging fruit to choose.

 

I'd be more than happy to put my money in a car which has the stamp of a well known Ferrari specialist.
Doesn't have to be an official Ferrari dealer.
But I wouldn't put my own money down on a car which had been maintained by a guy in his backyard.
No matter how good he is.
It's my money, and I wouldn't do it. As far as I would be concerned the maintenance "hasn't" been done, and I'd take any prospective car to a professional I trusted and expect to discount the cost of anything they suggested from the purchase price.

And, to be honest, even then I probably wouldn't buy the car.
But that's me. Others no doubt feel differently.

 

Yeah right, this while there's currently a car on Ebay that was neglected for 15 years then put back together by some Porsche specialist and everyone is calling it top of the market.

Guys that DIY their Ferrari are the intelligent, anal type that want it done right and are smart enough to do enough research and not get in over their head. It's not the guy standing at the Autozone counter on Saturday afternoon looking for the cheapest brake pads for his Chevy Malibu.

A buyer would be out of their mind to not pay top dollar for that car being restored by that guy we can't name vs. if it only had a major at a Ferrari dealer. We know every part of that car has been cleaned to perfection and every system overanalyzed which would never happen with a dealer or independent. Plus, only a fraction of independents operate at Brian's level. Most probably see a 355 only here and there.

Any car you buy is just a major away from having whatever stamp you want in your book.

 

Cool. That's your choice.
Your view is very much a US view, and that is fine as most people here are in the US.

Just like you, I can only speak for what is relevant to me.

A really good well maintained 355 here (and in the UK) is the equivalent of US$150k+

Would you be prepared to put that much of your own money down on a car which had been maintained by a guy in his backyard and lacked the stamps in the book, no matter how good he was?

Maybe you would, but I wouldn't.

 

Short answer: depends on DIYer and car. Due Diligence required no matter what.

Regarding Rolex, not a good example for me. Looking at the inside of Rolex watches, I'd never own one. GP, PP - different story but proper paperwork for authenticity required.

 

His backyard, no. Someone on this board with thousands of dollars invested in tools and a high quality workspace, maybe.

My experience is that I've DIY's many high end cars, including Ferraris, for the last 20 years and have never had a single buyer question anything when I've sold a car. Heck, I've never even had a buyer want to take a car through a PPI and except for a 996 turbo every car I've sold has been purchased by the first person that came to look at the car. Maybe I've just been lucky. Don't know.

 

+1
Great post billybob. If you lived where i live you would wish the dealer didn't do a service on the car your buying.The things i've seen would make you sick.You should see the 360 pump update that they did on the 355 i'm doing a major on right now...A kid could of done a better job and they charged $3600.00.I think it all comes down to pride of the person working on the car dealer or DIY.

 

That may reflect your attitude but it is in no way reality.

You are dead wrong for about 75% of the do it yourselfers.

As I said, many do excellent work but they are in the minority.

 

To me a box of changed parts that were changed (pertinent to the vehicle) is worth its weight more than a receipt that really isn't substantial evidence of any work being performed. Photo logging is much better. Very evident when you stare at the date codes on oil filters and belts. If someone says they just performed a major, and a dayco belt has a 2004 date code on it, there is something off. Belts don't lay on the shelf for 10 years, and no your ferrari dealer won't sell you a 10 year old accessory belt. Same goes for the oil filter. If someone says it was just serviced, just look at that date code, many look past the details and thats why they end up getting burned, false confidence is a bad thing.

I agree that the pros can be trusted and there are a few very reputable ones, but there is no problem with self work in my opinion because I have sold cars and bought them like that. If it bothers somebody enough I wouldn't want them as a buyer anyways. Changing belts isn't a big deal.

 

Haha.

Guess I'll go dig that box of old hoses, belts, plugs, motor mounts, hose clamps, plug wires, and other junk I tossed in the bin last night!

damn. More junk to store.

 

We are spoiled here. There some seriously good DIYer's that post here.

The ones that are serious post here and ask for help or guidance. Unfortunately, I doubt we see much over 10 - 20% of the over all population trying to fix their F car.

I suspect the pro's get to see some pretty spectacular "project" cars on a regular basis.

For the record, there are some pro's that aint worth their salt either. Liberty, IN comes to mind.

 

Funny thing is I think a good pro shop indy or FNA is just as rare. I think about the "butcher of Burbank" who fooled clients for years until he lost interest in the game and moved away. Then there was the famous West LA. guy who was the king of silicone. You could identify the cars he worked on just by opening the bonnet and having a look. There's the OC guy who can do good work who the Volvo guy ships all his cars to asking for a belt service then selling that to prospective customers as a Ferrari mechanic "major." Then there is this concourse level 550 I now own that was in the hands of 3 indys and finally an FNA shop. If it weren't for the screw ups, last straw with FNA, and capitulation of the previous owner I would not get to own this fine example which now runs perfectly with just a little diagnosis and a little DIY service.

 

The reputation of a shop is easy to quantify.

I field requests for that kind of information from people in the business of selling cars, publications and even Classiche.
Happens every day in the industry. There is a huge pool of knowledge in the profession about the people in it and we can get the low down on anyone in it before lunch.

 

And some that really suck despite their good reputation.

Point is when it is a shop or dealer there is a huge data base of information about them that can easily be accessed by anyone in the business.

Everyone know there are bad shops, no one has ever said otherwise. No point in even bringing that one up. We know that a hell of a lot better than any of you.