how to value a car where the owner did the major themself

Aircraft maintenance and service is carried out strictly to the book and checked or signed off throughout the process, one reason most ex-military guys don't 'get it' whenever I have tried to give them a chance, either here in the shop or on the race teams. Just my experience, not saying they suck, just that they have it written out in front of them. Unfortunately race mechanics are of the same mould nowadays.

 

Brian,
I'm sure there is a huge pool of knowledge about the pros most of us depend on. But how do most of us get access to that knowledge? That is the question. Try to get a completely honest answer about a particular doc from another doc! Try to find a lawyer who will try to cleanup the mess another lawyer made.
I may want to hold Ferrari mechs to a higher standard, but how?

 

It takes a special person to know when a "nail" can be used for a cotter pin under urgent race conditions but then be smart enough to know that after the race is done a new cotter pin is the proper repair before the next race. Some would call the common sense but it appears to be universally lacking.

 

Sorry to say but that is an idiotic statement and not really even on topic. No one has said every professional is good. We know far better than you that it is not the case. We see it every day. Why it has even become an element of the conversation is impossible to understand.

Likewise no one has said all do it your selfers are bad. We know equally well that is not true either.

It is partially about perception in the market place and mostly about the ability of determining the reputation and ability of who the car has been serviced by. It is also an indication of the willingness of prior owners to take proper care, their overall commitment to the car.

The last part my be an unfairly used yardstick, but it is used. To deny it is to deny reality.




If a car shows up at Fantasy Junction with a folder full of my invoices Bruce knows what to expect because he has known me for 30 years. He'll call me and ask about the car and owner. Now he has all the knowledge he needs to comfortably and accurately represent the car and he can tell a prospect my name and give him resources to check me out. If one of Brian Stewarts client cars show up Bruce will call me and ask about Brian. Now that he knows about Brian he can call Brian and ask about the car and owner and have an idea whether he is going to get a straight story or get a lot of smoke.

Now he's buying your car


Who does he call?

 

You can't and it is for many reasons.

I'd be happy to tell you who is good and bad but to begin with it would get me sued. Also half or more of you would just assume I was throwing other shops under the bus for competitive advantage and it would reflect badly on me.

Inside the industry we share the information freely just as you do in yours.

 

That is an experience that I am afraid is industry wide.

Worse from military but from people from civilian life too.

 

Comprehensive skill sets only occur with years under many scenario's only if they have natural common sense and drive.

Today's factory mechanics heavily rely on factory support via a lifeline unlike how we came through the ranks.

So do they learn more reading or doing? Personally I cant remember my relatives names at times but sure can remember every dogs name in the neighborhood.

Put a pile of parts in front of me we can make it better without the interNOT

 

I can bolt parts on a C130 with the best of them

Can I fix one? Not bloody likely but if you want me to try I'll stand right here and watch you test fly it.

 

I need to search the internet to confirm my findings, someone must agree with me.

 

Can i ask the following, I hope to find the answer interesting.
On that tv show " chasing classic cars". From what I gather Wayne Carini is a Ferrari expert and his number one mechanic (the old school guy) seems to be a jack of all trades servicing and rebuilding all makes of cars.
My question is this. Are any of them guys actually certified Ferrari mechanics? Wayne never seems to have any problems selling any of the full range of Ferraris from his dealership, even though his service area looks like a grubby old garage come workshop. I have seen DIY guys with more professional workshops.
Does a Ferrari qualification really matter?

 

That's Impossible so its not a good comparison.
The Cessna pilot wouldn't know what to do in the cockpit of a 747, you would never get off the ground to many buttons and such. the pocket checklist would blow their mind!

But The people on a resent Lufthansa flight trusted their pilots to do the right thing and they were betrayed by one of them, So pros sometimes screw you over as well.

Now were talking about Someone doing a crappy major on a 355, I feel the comparison of death on a airplane is far away from costing you money for a failure. I assume the brakes were bleed correctly in this situation. the issue will arise most likely in the engine area where it will cost you tens of thousands of dollars and so on. That's the true feel. some kind of security blanket because a Pro did the work and you wont have any issues. That's not a guarantee, just like a PPI can and will miss stuff and is not able to look into the future of a components life. This is why so many good shops don't even do PPIs anymore because to many ******* buyers expect nothing to ever fail after they buy the car.



Also if I ever had a issue that required that really expensive diagnostic computer well then I would take it to a Shop specializing in Ferrari They just are not in my backyard, Some things I need done do get farmed out, I don't do everything myself as much as Id like to.

 

In my opinion yes.

A. I don't think much of Waynes guy. I think he is a hack. And from my perspective that show really undermines his reputation.

B. Cars are not all the same anymore. Anyone thinks different has no business under the hood.

I get offered Porsche work, Lamborghini work and recently even Bentley work. I do not do any of them. To do so would not be a service to the client. He needs to find someone with that product knowledge and reference materials and tools to properly repair those cars. The day of doing it all is long gone.

 

Yes, I got the impression of his guy being a "hack" to, but i was avoiding being rude
From what we see non of Carini's mega wealthy Ferrari collectors or new buyers care much that the service was done by a non Ferrari trained mechanic. I mean it's obvious that some one will drop a million bucks on an f40 serviced by the "hack".

 

What really blows my mind are people that go to Wayne for a full restoration. I am sure if you owned a Dino or Daytona you could find someone a lot more qualified than his crew.

 

It comes with a Library of Books telling you exactly what to do, Down to which way the bolt head should face, how much thread protrusion in might need washer sack ups saftey wire, wht size how to safety wire it and blah blah blah.

Then after you sign it off another guy called a collateral duty inspector (CDI) must inspect and test your work if its a testable item. Then he signs off on it if its done correctly all safety wire is done right and so on, otherwise your doing it again.

Then if it is a Flight control or an engine or gearbox, something "important to the "safety of flight" It is then inspected by the Quality Assurance Inspector (QAR) then they inspect it, test it and sign off or not depending on what they find, If its good then it is ready to go back into service.

Then any work you did is inspected again by the Crew Chief and then the pilots so at least 4 people look at your work after its done.

If it was a Flight control or a engine or anything with safety of flight concerns, the aircraft is tested.

That was in the Marine Corps.

It can be a real Pain working on aircraft, Because while your doing all of that your probably also going through some kind of safety inspection. Ugh I don't miss that.


Trust me plenty of people like to throw parts at a problem on aircraft as well. More than once I have heard things like "lets change the whole engine because we can't figure out the fuel issue" It will be Faster and we can get the plane flying faster, The Maintenance controllers always wanted everything done fast, They didn't want you spending hours troubleshooting, all that matters is that the Aircraft is in a Up status as fast as possible.

 

All true, and why, for military aircraft, engines are considered LRUs.

 

If we were still in the 80s or 90s I'd call BS on this. But I can't represent anyone afterwards.

 

you are confusing TV with the real world.

 

Whatever.

 

i have a friend that is a delta engine mechanic... they sign off on everything.. everything is documented..time of use, etc

 

I have no idea how what they do can be called a restoration. He is really giving that industry a bad name.

He's a nice guy and a friend of several friends but he has gotten far too caught up on being on TV. I don't think he knows how bad he is making himself look.

 

Wayne's shot is not a repair shop. He does restorations and flips cars. If he gets a Ferrari in to sell that needs significant service work or a major chances are that it gets sent out.

And I would not be so quick to knock Rodger. He's been around. He was the first man to turn a lap at Lime Rock in under 1 minute and was a 1968 SCCA Formula B champion. Here is a picture of him in his Crossle FB at VIR, and another in the 15F. And a link for anyone interested. Individual Car Histories
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I'll jump in....
I agree with many of the opinions shared here, that a documented work history is prime, from a buyers perspective. But then again, it comes down to the shop as well. TV shows, I hardly believe in them as being 'Masters' of anything that comes in the door, they're flippers,rebuilders and sellers. As Rifledriver admits to not working on Lambos etc, just because it's not his main focus, but a person like him is hard to find, kudos to him for his pride.
On the other hand, I've boughten 'Star Certified' Mercedes from dealers, finding they did basics and NOT the workmanship I'd have followed through with in more depth. Most employed shop mechanics are also under the thumb of the owner and given time constraints to 'Make it run' or the basics many of us can easily do, just to sell it through the dealership. On a major, if a guy showed me all the receipts, could see his work area, tools and his general knowledge of what he did might be a better judgement factor.
An example is TR512's cars. I'd buy one any day from him.He has the knowledge, plus I know his mechanic friend as well, not working in Ferrari's shop, but probably the most knowledgeable Ferrari mechanic in BC, meticulous guy with all the proper tools and patience, no boss watching his clock and again, hard to find another like him. He's done all the major work on my friends 328 for years, it's mint, and valued at the top of the line, period.
Just my opinion, it's a personal decision.

 

Winning the air war with "No sorties lost for operations or maintenance reasons" while having the "Most combat sorties and hours for any F-15 squadron" does say something.

 

I know exactly who he is and his talent in a race car 30 or more years ago has nothing to do with his repairs in cars in 2015.