how to value a car where the owner did the major themself

How true

 

I believe it.
There's a fool born every minute.

 

Most of you guys are out of control. Fchat is a small niche of Ferrari purchasers out there. If every single member here passed on a car with owner performed maintinence, there are so many more buyers in existence that would not.

Get along and enjoy your cars ! The owners in the know are the ones laughing all the way to the bank. Either way you are driving a Ferrari.

 

+1

Most of the negative comments/disrespect are from mechanics who are trying to protect their livelihood or from individuals who either lack the skills or confidence......or BOTH to perform major mechanical services.....hence the criticism.

If it weren't for the DIY's Ferrari Chat and all the other DIY sites would'nt have a reason to exist.

 

Disrespect?
Surely the disrespect is from the guys who think they can buy a spanner, read a few pages of an Internet forum and then suddenly they become an expert Ferrari mechanic.
The bottom line in terms of the original question is; "It is up to the buyer".
ie. The person with the money in their hands.

If they downgrade or disregard a car because it has been maintained by an enthusiastic backyarder, so be it.

As these cars increase in value (as they certainly will), the cars which have been maintained "properly" (please note the use of quotation marks) will be the ones which command the highest prices.

What's the problem? If you've saved thousands of $ by doing your own work, why be upset if at the other end a potential buyer wants to save thousands for the same reason?

You can't have it both ways.

 

+100 %

 

I agree. As John(DriveitDaily) mentioned, these are older cars now and for a good mechanic not that difficult.

As Dr. Bob mentioned it should be viewed on a case by case basis. I would get a ppi done no matter who did the maintenance, and I know that is not a guarantee that something will not got wrong in the future. It would not decrease the cars value for me, if the PPI checked out good.

Once the maintenance is done, the clock starts ticking towards the next service interval. Even if it is done at a dealership, if it is a year out from the service, according to Ferrari you are only going to have two years left, if you go by their recommendations, to those that believe that this is the only proper way to go are you going to discount your car by that amount?

As FBB stated, when I purchase a car I just assume the responsibility of getting a service done.

I had my car serviced at an Independent shop by a excellent and honest mechanic. As long as he is around I have no plans in taking it anywhere else. If someone didn't want to purchase my car because it wasn't maintained by an authorized dealership, there will be someone that will.

 

Servicing it yourself doesn't discount the value by thousands. Lmao. I have sold all my cars many high ends with no stamps in the book, never has my own service cost me a sale. Like I said , those who are in the know are laughing behind their keyboards. Owning a Ferrari doesn't mean you have to empty the bank. Many members here are trying to scare the masses. Its unbelievable.

 

+1.....
"many members here are trying to scare the masses". Can anyone here say agenda.
Pretty sad nonsense for a DIY site.

 

FFS, get a grip.
You are obviously not just some guy with a spanner and a jack and access to the Internet.
I'd bet there are plenty of people "laughing behind their keyboards" at people who pay top dollar for a car which has been maintained by an unqualified, yet enthusiastic nobody.
Those cars should be discounted by a significant amount compared to specialist or authorised maintained cars. If they are not, the only person laughing is the seller.

Whether you like it or not, there are plenty of people who would not buy or would severely discount a car which has been backyard maintained. That's just the way it is.

You say there are plenty of people who WOULD buy those cars, and you are absolutely right.
Of course there are. And a lot of those cars would be very good cars.
But they should not be paying the same as an equivalent car with all the right stamps in the book from a highly regarded shop.
Isn't that what the original question was about?

 

Since when has this been a DIY site?
I thought it was a site for all Ferrari owners.

 

Agenda? Why? A very small percentage DIY there Ferrari, and a smaller percentage do it properly.

 

So we're just nobodys?

So are the guys stamping that book they too are nobodys.

Not sure why a ink stamp means so much. I know history is nice but what if all the history it ever had was just 30K services, wouldn't the most recent service trump any previous service?

I mean different reasons owners don't get it in. Then its a time thing but again as far as a 30K service its pretty basic.

I guess its time to start posting the things I have seen come out of so called pro shops that should be trusted over Do it your selfers.
Again Not all shops have hacks working at them, But Id say anyone who has worked as a mechanic, Knows of someone who does the bare minimum to get the job done. That could be in any line of work, I have a cam cover from my 95 355 that had a crack on the RH cover, where the rear o-ring seal grove is set. Instead of fixing it or getting a new one, I got a JB weld type of repair, Some kind of epoxy.

The true fact is that very few Ferrari Mechanics get the praise they deserve and way to many people touch these cars and they never should.


For all I know a previous owner told the mech's or shop to do this and it was ok.

But who knows it seems we don't really know what kind of maintenance has been done on our cars.
Little stamps and pieces of paper don't mean ****.
if that piece of paper from a shop is really what you want they by all means go for it and buy that car.
But don't come in here blowing smoke up everyone's ass that does do their own work
The guy that had my car before me was a Doctor he paid for everything to be done. but who knows when this was done??? Its a mystery
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What a load.

A stamp isn't gonna make the work any better. It's either done properly or it isn't, regardless of who turns the wrenches.

 

+1000

 

I'm a new 355 owner and have owened all kinds of high end cars. I restore million dollar cars and do collision repair for a living. Every time that I have taken any of my cars to a so called specialist. I have had to redo the work. I don't think anyone will do the job the way you want it unless u do it yourself. I don't care how many certificates they have plastered on there wall.thats just my two cents.Of course as long as u know what your doing.

 

exactly.

 

Ernie you are correct

I had mechanics at my store that passed through that I would not let them change my oil.
Why did I keep them? They were the best option at the time.

The pains of a dealership most don't understand

 

Doing a major on a 355F1 that had the 360 pump update done at the dealer for the tune of 3.5k that was done so wrong...
If you look at the photo's you can see that they had the return line going into the high pressure line with a plastic T fitting.Not only wrong but why would you use a plastic fitting with a 355 that has so much heat under the hood? just asking for a fire.I dont understand why this even worked but he did have to replace the 360 pump motor again after 9mths which they would not warranty.I will fix this and i'm doing my fourth 360 pump update for an Fchat member and will post photo's how to do it the right way.Just because your work was done at the dealer dosen't mean it was done right..anybody can do bad work ...DIY ,dealer,shop owner.
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and the dealer wouldn't warranty it either.....what b.s.

 

My take:

You really just need to work with a mechanic or owner that knows the car inside and out. Whether that is an auth dealer, independent, or diy'er is entirely up to YOU. All can be good.

There really is no wrong answer - just your COMFORT level. The car in great mechanical shape and being up to date is the only factor, but you won't enjoy the experience as much if you are unsure of its last service or what can go wrong.

The track record of a car is VERY important to me. Maybe not as much to others. Having a good starting point is what I shoot for. You then, can pick one of those three service options for the car's NEXT service when it's due under your watch.

You can't always have your pick of how the car was serviced last when buying the car to get started with ownership. It's not like there are 20 berlinettas lined up to choose from, so you'll have to value them including based on where they were last serviced. If it's been 5 years, then negotiate the price and service at your choice - which is the best scenario.

I feel much better going with my independent who used to work at Ferrari back long before 1995. I have no desire or time to replace his expertise with my effort, but I do like knowing all aspects of the car - especially if you plan to keep it long term. When I lived in Colorado it was Dave Helms. now in AZ it's Andy Falbo. So I'm not a diy'er. I'd rather work hard in my profession and make good money to pay the experts to do their thing. I usually get what I pay for.

You can be smart about your decision making with service and smart about what to pay when buying a car with service records.

Three identical cars with a month old major service for sale at the same price:

One serviced at Ferrari of Scottsdale
One serviced at Independents like Dave Helms, or Brian Crall
One serviced by an owner who is an airplane mechanic as a day job

Likely all three cars will be in great shape. If they are all priced the same, which will sell first? Most would buy the dealer serviced car first. But I would put the spread in prices at this:

All other factors the same:
Dealer major service car - full value
Independent major service car - $ minus 2,500 off the dealer serviced car's selling price
DIY'er major service car - $ minus 5,000 off the dealer serviced car's selling price

My money, where possible, is buying the car maintained by the independent who knows these models and knows what else to look for. That will save a buyer down the road and give you less to worry about. Knowing "who the best independents are" is really the question though, because not all of them are equal. If your independent only services Ferrari, then you are likely headed in the right direction. If they also "specialize on anything with 4-wheels with many brands and non-Italians, then I'm headed elsewhere with an F355. Now if you live in North Dakota or Nebraska, I feel your pain with Ferrari ownership. But, I'm not looking for an F355 maintained by a Volvo dealership. Some buyers will be - if the price is right.

I like the authorized dealerships also, but many of the veteran mechanics that worked there for 20-30 years have jumped ship to start their own shops or retired. I don't want a mechanic fresh out of school that learned the 458 and has never seen a 355 working on my car... Even if it's simpler. So some dealerships may not be a good fit. Others may be perfect. Depends on their staff. But the other nice thing going with a dealer is that a major service is warranted for two years at any other Ferrari authorized dealership.

Here are our F355's:

1995 Berlinetta - serviced at Ferrari New England, Ferrari of Austin, Ferrari of Beverly Hills, and Ferrari of Denver.
1997 GTS - serviced at Cauley Ferrari, Foreign Cars Italia, and Ferrari of Fort Lauderdale.
1998 Challenge - serviced at Foreign Cars Italia, Ferrari of Atlanta, and Lake Forest in IL.

All authorized dealers as you can see.

Who do you feel COMFORTABLE with and what is that worth to you? I'm good here with my cars and their future.

Robb

 

Good job, Mike! Guess the mechanic had to run to Home Depot for plumbing parts lol!
As I mentioned before, I hold my breath on vehicles that are dealer serviced, unless I know the dealer. Example, my wifes Mercedes last year, bringing it back to Canada from our home in Nevada needed daytime running lights activated, a simple fix. Big name dealer in Kamloops BC here, wanted to install relays, some wiring bs..... I took to dealer in Reno Nevada, gave them the procedure, hooked to computer and opened a switch in the computer logic, and works fine, $50 and properly done. Service manager and techs are great guys, no arrogant bs as some dealerships.
It doesn't matter the brand, it's who you know and trust to me.
Albeit, education on the car is a good start, then see what you're told and go from there.
It's a personal choice as to what to pay, I know who I would trust and not trust as far as placing a value, that's just my personal view after 56 cars now.

 

I had my 355 into the service center at the local Ferrari dealer for a complimentary evaluation that they were offering presumably to drum up business for their new shop. It was apparent that I knew more about the car than the service tech and I am by no means an expert. As these cars get older, the service techs at the dealers seem to know less and less about them. They are trained to work on the newer models that come in for warranty service. This guy probably knew the 458 or the California inside and out but he was out of his comfort zone on my car.

 

Isn't it more than a little strange that the unqualified people are offended when told their work is worth less than the qualified people's work?

They see no disrespect in ridiculing people who work on Ferraris every day for a living, but anyone who dares question their backyard abilities is ripe for scorn.

Most of these people would be professionals in their own given field, and would be horrified if anyone suggested that an Internet expert could do their job as well as they can.

The hypocrisy is extraordinary.

 

Someone did a major in their back yard? Like on the lawn?