86 Mondial I'm at the end of my rope

I put a running car away last fall and now I cannot get it to run. My timing light check didn't work so thinking I didn't have a spark I changed both sensors a microplex box. Well I actually do have a spark but NOTHING. I pulled the wire for the safety switch and both the fuel pump and the frequency valves were buzzing, Tried to start it and NOTHING, cranks with no attempt to start. When I tested the spark I grounded the spark plug at the top of the valve cover and it ignited the gas fumes so there must be gas present. Spark, fuel, whats left air??? Can I spray some starting fluid into the top of the engine to see if it runs?? Could the belts jumped enough teeth to through off the valve timing, I don't hear anything and can't imagine it did it on both sides. Is there some type of air flow regulator?

Also, I cleaned all the ground, connectors swapped relays etc. The car is a completely unmolested 28,000 mile car fusebox, connectors look brand new. The only problem is the car doesn't run enough. My hope it's just something stuck that not allowing it to start.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated

Nudo

 

This is the sequence of events I followed to get a car to running status.

1. Compression on all cylinders. Remove all spark plugs, use known good gauge.
2. Spark on all cylinders. Easy to do with the spark plugs removal from the compression test. Ground the tip against the engine somewhere.
3. You have a 3.2L engine, so you need to check cold start fuel pressure.
4. Cold start valve. Does it squirt fuel?
5. Spray some starter fluid into a couple cylinders, replace the plugs, start it up. If it runs just a little bit, then you have fuel delivery issues.

If all is there, the engine must fire. The last 2 cars with this problem have been fuel issues.

 

How did you store it? Any fuel stabilizer or anything?

 

Yes, first time I used Stabil 360 and a trickle charger

 

Charlie Chan would say, "Other end of rope lead to honorable Kill Switch?"

 

"If not, call honorable Dave Helms!"

 

Did you use the correct amount? Sorry to ask that, but often times people over use the product and can lead to problems. All things being equal and if she ran fine going in, my bet would be bad fuel or fuel delivery issues. You can take the flexible hose off the plenum and spray some starting fluid in there (2-3 seconds), reconnect the hose and try to start it. if it starts it's fuel or fuel delivery (bad pump, or something is clogged).

 

One way to check for spark is to connect up a timing light sensor over one of the wires while someone cranks the engine.

 

News from the front lines, trust me your letters of encouragement get me through the day, then get home try it, and NOTHING. Ok, the fuel thing makes sense to me after a storage. Well, checked the cold start valve, works fine, I removed the black hose and squirted some starting fluid, can you guess NOTHING. I pulled the plugs all wet with gas, my next step is compression test ,I lent mine to a friend so I'm buying new one tomorrow.

Let's think about this, to have no compression would mean that the valve timing is off on both banks, how is this possible. I changed the belts about 100 miles ago with no issues. Whatever is causing this is on both banks, very strange???

The only thing I see is a possible weak spark I don't hear a sharp clink should I go for a fresh set of plugs? You don't even hear a pop of life. At this point I'm sick to my stomach.

Any help please!!!

 

Lets slow down and work this logically

It ran when you put it up?
if yes imo mechanical issues of timing /compression dont go bad just sitting

however connections electrical problems happen due to corrosive conditions , like cold storage/humidity

look for obvious

Are you sure that the CIS system is holding pressure?
easy check:
turn key on
take off air intake cover
gently push on the intake plenum/diaphragm
Is there resistance to the push?
A) if yes then fuel system is pressurized

If there is pressure did you CHANGE NOT SWAP the start relays ? (these are the
relays labeled Fuel Pump relay and the Fuel Pump Starter relay, they are located next to the big white connector in the fuse box)

cheap replacement with NAPA PN AR272 $10 each

B) if no pressure then there is a fuel delivery issue
some things to check
these relays
accumulator
gas in tank


my start issues are documented here and I changed a few things before realizing it was only the relays http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/mondial/465425-cold-start-valve-csv.html

these are my opinions and am only trying to help

search "cold start" issues in Mondial and 308/328 sections there are lots of other things to check

take a deep breath we will try to help you through this

 

NUDO

I reread your last post about NO spark http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/mondial/484931-86-mondial-no-%24park.html

Assume that you have spark now after checking/fixing what?
Assume that you have spark at plug extender?

Back to your spark post
Question: you state that you "changed the distributor seal"
Both distributors?
At that point did you start your engine ?
If so, assume it ran?

If no are you ABSOLUTELY sure that you put the wires in correctly?
Is it seated correctly?
assume that the rotor was put on correctly?
FYI you will still have spark but not correct firing order

 

Just a suggestion if the non-starting issue is on both cylinder banks - check if you have +12v battery voltage on pin 4 of each ignition module connector (flat connector to the module mounted on top of coil assembly, pin 4 has the thicker yellow wire) when the ignition switch is turned to crank the engine.

 

From the land of NO $TART it’s dark and gloomy over here. Let me tell you how this all happened.
1. Mid Nov. I drove the car filled it up with high octane fuel some Stabil 360 and a battery charger. I removed the front cap and plate. (harsh winter very cold temps.)
2. Mid March I replace the oil seal and cap went to start and it cranked but would not start not even a pop.
3. I use a timing light and saw nothing on both banks, I assumed that it was a pickup sensor, It was that two years ago. So I changed the other one. same thing.
4. I got desperate so I located a Microplex box, same thing. Then got an other pickup so now I have two new sensors, still nothing.
5. I checked all of the spots, power two the box, grounds, power to the power modules, cleaned every connector and relay, also switched them. Then I put the volt meter in the high tension lead of the coil and got a pulse, I pulled the plugs and can see a spark when grounded to the engine. Not a clicking blue one but a spark.
6. So I went to fuel, cold start valve works and the pump and frequency valve buzz when you push on the diaphragm. I sprayed some starting fluid into the top of the engine and still not a pop
7. Pulled the plugs and they were wet with gas.
8. Today I picked up a compression tester, lent mine to a friend. It didn’t have the correct thread size so I need an adapter or an other one. I plan on checking the compression, and putting in a new set of plugs.

At this point I don’t know what to expect nothing has made sense yet. The belts are 100 miles old I can’t imagine the valve timing is off. I’m desperately hanging on to the problem is a weak spark but don’t know how to check or fix, if it’s that. The underlying issue is it is affecting both banks. Can’t have two distributors, coils, power modules, belts etc. Or maybe it can, I don’t know anymore
Nudo

 

Another suggestion - double-check the safety switch on the CIS airflow metering unit (2 pin connector, just under the air filter box) ?

 

Read through this thread. It seems you have fuel (#7, plugs are wet) and you say you have spark. Many years ago, on a very different vehicle, I had the same symptoms. Timing chain had broken. Ran fine one day, next day wouldn't start.

I know it ran when you stored it. When was the timing belt last checked?

Regards,
Jerry

 

You mentioned you located a Microplex box which I assume you replaced your Microplex?
Are you sure the Microplex is in working order? You may want to have your Microplex box tested to make sure it is working properly. The ECU Doctor in Florida are very good and can test your box easily.

I had the same problem with my 85 QV a few years ago and took forever to solve. Turned out to be one of my digiplexs which was bad and caused timing problem. I believe your 86 is different because you may have the single microplex but still could be the cause of your problem.

Sounds like your fuel and spark are all ok, but your timing is off. Could be your belts but unlikely because you only have 100 miles on them.

 

EDIT: also check fuse F10 (7.5amp) is OK

 

Also Check your battery when starting, Mondials tend to react very sensitive on a low battery when the startmotor is reving. maybe you can use a battery booster as an extra powerunit to get the maximum ignition spark to start.

 

^^
this

trickle charged or not. I would start at the very beginning and install a brand new battery.

 

Let me do some brainstorming. Which in my case is often described as brain farts. Anyway.

You have spark and wet spark plugs but not a pop? If this were a carb situation I would suggest flooding. Is there anyway your car could be flooding? Perhaps you could disconnect the fuel pump fuse and see what happens when you crank without additional fuel. If it pops?

Also, your cam belts are new which is a suspicion. Every cam belt problem I have ever heard of involves new installations. But for BOTH of them to skip a tooth? I suppose its possible.

Your new belts sat unexercised for a period of time and 'could' have taken a hard set. If so I suppose its possible they both could have jumped a tooth upon cranking. And it would not show up on a compression test either.

But since you have wet plugs the first test imho is to unwet them. Starve them of fuel and crank away.

PS: I have, from time to time, installed distributor rotors backwards. Not sure that is possible in our cars. Are there any other ways the spark impulse could be going to the wrong ignition? Are the distributors possible to install 180 degrees out of phase? It is also possible to reconnect spark plug wires in the wrong order. I have done that as well.

 

I like where your coming from... I'm putting in a fresh set of iridium plugs and a fully charged battery and we will see what happens

 

You didn't take out your rotors as an anti theft measure and forgot because Alzheimer made you do so? ( I know, there is a spark, but its very very little....)

The 'scale' of the air mass meter is working freely in the housing? It closes fine? No mice building nests in your airbox? (Hence the wet spark plugs)

Can you get her through with a carburetorcleaner? Perhaps made the fuel stabiliser varnish of your fuel. If you could get her started on carburetorcleaner perhaps she's of on the fuel you 'tweaked'.

Perhaps a sticky cold start injector is fooling you?

 

OK, I think I know what's wrong I just don't know how to fix it. I did a compression test, all were in a good range, also changed the plugs. When I went to start it sounded like it was going to start then nothing. I removed the air intake hose only to see a river of gas, I looked back into the distributor unit and there was a puddle of gas at the bottom. I don't know why fuel is in the air intake I know it's not right. Any HELP PLEASE!!!

 

Nudo, we're no longer throwing darts in the black of night, trying to hit a bull's eye that we can't see. I believe that finally, the solution to your problem is very close to being well in hand.

Relax, have a nice glass of Cabernet - because your demon will soon be grabbed by the ????, and permanently removed.

I have faith ,

Hank

 

I have a bad habit of opening the garage door at least every 7-10 days, I could care less what the weather is and start and run my car for at least 15 minutes.
So you will get this resolved soon I feel your pain of a non running F car, so next year you might want to ....... Even on a freezing day a 15 min warmup and close the garage right after brings the temp in the garage back up to 70 degrees.