car design thread

I don't expect much from Ford with the Mustang. Just not in their leadership to do anything with that brand that moves design truly forward. Drag Jack Telnack and Fritz Mayhew back out of retirement.

As for the Camaro they needed to find the ghost of Mitchell and Jordan in the Tech Center hallways. The first generation Camaro was really a ho hum design that was its own interpretation in the Mustang idiom. The 2nd generation in both Camaro and Firebird were spectacular advancements. The 3rd was another grand slam. Even the 4th was god work - maybe a bit bloated. I know that the designers were and are capable of far, far better if only they were allowed.

As best I can tell from this "new" Camaro it is a perfect example of the company being too scared to more forward which is combined with a lack of understanding of why the predecessor was successful. Result, wasting money for all the new sheetmetal that looks more like a mid cycle freshening.

Jeff

 

They gave a talk and nobody came...
It would be interesting to know how many clicks they get.

I quite like the front of the Alfa that you snapped today. Judging from the back half, it was based on the last Alfa F1 car

When I see the work your students are doing, I wonder how much time is spent studying the history of automotive design. I think at least half of my first year was studying and re-interpreting everyone from Paladio to Kahn, Corbu, & Mies. How much time is spent studying the guys who are considered the Pantheon of automotive greats such as Giugiaro, Exner, Buehrig, & Bracq?

history it's important (too!) -

 

All well and good but I hope the swans don't get confused about which side is the 'good' side after all this money gets spent...

 

The blue and white VW vehicle design to match the corporate colors; was that done on purpose as something subtle or just an interesting coincidence?

 

Seeing the big picture with "Fiat" it makes more sense now. I just saw the tight picture of the car with the big "VW" logo behind it. Thanks for sharing the images here!

 

Peter D of Autoextremist has again gone off the rails when talking aesthetics this week. He has written effusive words for the exterior of the Camaro and the current Mustang. Now both may be great efforts as cars but both seriously suffer from a lack of corporate guts when it comes to the design studio.

I don't know the Mustang designers but I knew Tom Peters at Art Center and watched some work over the years that was published in Car Styling. Either he burned out (seriously doubt) or "management" directed this re-tread of a 69 Camaro. Why, why, why can't GM let their creativity loose?

Peter also made a serious whiff on the Continental show car. Make that a multiple whiff. The Bentley designers were rightly upset with that car yet Peter blathered on about all designs are derivative, yada yada, yada.

Peter clearly knows what GM Design was capable of in the days of Bill Mitchell. Look forward because you are confident of where you are going; no need to be looking over the shoulder. Is this latest Camaro worthy standing with a '65 Riviera, a '67 Toranado, a '69 GTO, 70 1/2 Camaro & Firebird, 3rd generation Camaro or even John's CTS Coupe? Hell no! Not even in their league.

Peter needs to go back and reacquaint himself with the ghosts of Earl, Mitchell and Jordan to get himself set straight again.

 

History of auto design can be a prickly point for the students. The students need to be looking forward. At Art Center in my time Strother MacMinn tried to get us to deal with the brass era and classics but that wasn't really relevant to designing a car of our day. One should be fearful of so much history that "retro" is the solution.

Now I do believe in understanding the people and how they pushed Design forward. How they saw a new and different future is worthwhile and can be an inspiration in what the student should be trying to achieve.

John should have a better feel if the current students have sufficient understanding of the history of cars. In our time the Trans students were mostly life long car people before they ever walked through the school doors.

 

I really did not believe that Tom Peters had become a burn out but it has been decades since seeing him.

My indictment is of the to design leadership and those above them who force the designers in the studio to deliver less than they are truly capable of.

The rant was also heavily directed to Peter who has given some very undeserved free passes in the past few weeks.

Jeff

 

I grapple with how to explain it but teaching automotive design history to the students should not be like an art history class. As for myself I had been a car person from the earliest days. Had liked the big time classics, sports cars and subscribed to AutoWeek, Road & Track and Style Auto before I ever applied to Art Center. Didn't think of myself as that different from the other trans students except for maybe understanding Packard.

Not sure how I would do it if given a chance. Larry Crane is/has done something at Art Center of recent. Would be interesting how he approaches it.

Jeff

 

Peter definitely did not like my commentary.

 

I agree that "history" can be something of a double-edged sword, as it's usually better not to have any preconceived ideas going into a project, but it's equally important to know where you're starting from if you're truly going to try and move forward!
I was never a fan of Corbusier's aesthetic as I always thought it too stark, but some of the concepts he pioneered with buildings such as l'habitation were truly revolutionary and just cannot be ignored. When I speak of design history, it's not just about the result, but the rigor of the design process that brought Corbu, Khan, Arthur Erickson, etc. to their result.

I was prompted to make my original remark when I saw the last model John posted of a Maserati concept and its extreme "Coke bottle" effect reminded me of the old "Red Head" Bonneville racer. We've done "Coke bottle". Go back and understand how we got there, how it developed, and where it took us, and then allow it to work its way through your own personal filters and see what results.
I think what I love most about design is that we are all truly individuals shaped by our own unique blend of formative influences, and given a strict set of parameters, are as likely as not to come up with two totally different results. I'm originally from Quebec, and I firmly believe that that combination of landscape, weather, the rhythm of the language, etc. will have a profound influence on what ideas I generate.

In short, I don't think the answer to the challenge is a blank sheet of paper, because the paper is never truly blank-